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How would you fix [x]? Week 10: Al Fasid

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Knauf, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The Ariadnan fake-HI (now that they have a true HI) also don't have the primary major drawback of being vulnerable to hacking. Minutemen should not be compared to HI because they are not similar to other faction HI at all. They are a lot more similar to MI. Yes, vulnerable to E/M which is more headache to remember than I think the gameplay effect merits and with most objectives that demand HI also accepting MI... well... as their current profile is concerned I don't really see any (good) reason why they should be classified as HI at all.

    In short: Minutemen are MI and their price are as expected for MI with those stats.

    Minutemen as such are not actually all that disadvantaged when it comes to costs, it is more that they have the same issue as Ye Mao and so many others - it's rare that units in this price category are considered valuable unless they got to that cost through Frenzy (see: Teuton Zensenbutai or Domaru) or they have an ability which strongly offsets the drawback (see: Kamau sniper, Bolt sniper, Epsilon, etc)
    In other words they need something to allow them to stand out. Like, having BS 13 is significant, but not so significant that a Marauder doesn't seem more enticing.

    That said, I do think refurbing them to be battle ravage HI would be an interesting take on it. It's not like it's more bookkeeping than Puppetbots already don't force on us...
    Looking at the Blackjack, the battleravaged kind of HI also does seem to come with a small discount - not as big as Frenzy, but I'd estimate no real price change. (Which when considering they'd be hackable isn't as fantastic as it sounds)
     
  2. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    Comparing them to Moblots only makes them look even worse. They initially seem very close, but the Moblot is significantly better.

    For a point more they get Shock acoss the board. An AP rifle and light shotgun. (I find the light shotgun much better than the +1B flamethrower and heavy pistol.) Fire means very little any more, since the burned state on equipment is gone. The shotgun is always B2 template actively, But also provides a stronger face to face option point blank. They also get 3BTS which is very unique for an Ariadnan unit.

    The one point difference of WIP and Phys betwern them is very keyed to their roles. Moblots being more versatile and effective with their specialists. And the Minutemen are a bit more effective dodgers. And they hit a bit harder in CC and throw grenades a slip better. That CC difference is sad too. 19 is not good enough to really want to use it with their Extra dodge distance, but also not really enough to discourage dedicated CC pieces. So it ends of being bloat. (Along with their AP CCW)

    The difference between Jungle and Total Terrain feels very paltry with how uncommon difficult terrain is on boards. Jungle tends to be the most common anyway.

    I still think both need NWI but the Moblots are certainly built like many other factions premium linkable MI. Having full wildcard is also a huge boost for making links.

    Minutemen do have much better Heavy weapon options with the AP HMG and Missile Launcher.

    But Sapper, Infiltrating Mimetism, are extremely strong alternate solo options. And I would argue the panzerfausts compared to the Missile Launcher are much better when trying to push up on hard targets mid table. Or take a shot of opportunity.





    I don't see why getting a battle ravaged would mean they would automatically lose non-hackable. (Mind you with Spotlight now as a reactive option, everything is 'Hackable') Though it could be interesting to see them change troop class in battle ravaged, HI-MI, Though this might be too similar to Symbioarmor

    M 4-2
    CC 15
    BS 12
    PH 12
    WIP 12
    ARM 2
    BTS 0
    W 1
    S 2


    It's quite a downgrade. But still does allow you to possibly doctor/paramedic them back up, or be used as an objective positively or negatively. Unlike NWI.
     
    #222 Kreslack, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I would love it if Yu Jing's HI lost hackable as well, since it's apparently not a big deal ;)
    Jokes aside, why I'm suggesting hackable is because that would give them access to the discount that real heavy infantry have and because that's how Ariadna HI are designed by CB. Without it they'd bump up in price. As a small aside, terrain skills and Dodge +x" typically do not cost anything - and entirely anecdotal; aquatic is the most common terrain feature in my meta with Zero-G followed due to ITS mission design.
     
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  4. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    I'm good with these units getting a price increase for a solid bump in staying power. USARF could do with something in that points bracket anyhow.





    Its pretty awesome to hear Aquatic Terrian is common somewhere. Zero-G has been more common everywhere due to it being in many mission setups in ITS12, and I've been wondering if that will remain next season or kinda fade away, I've rather liked it so far
     
    #224 Kreslack, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    They should make Minutemen 6-2, with Multiterrain that team'd be a lot of fun. That said, I find that I run the NCO HMG in almost all of my lists, and the Missile Launcher in most of my others. The rest of them only see play in objective room missions, ime.
     
  6. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    1W 20+pt link troopers are way out of my territory, but I'll put in my two cents.

    In USAriadna, its got the same problem every old school core has - paying a premium on every member (outside of the one gun in a Grunt core obvs). Apparantly we're not supposed to do that any more. Allowing some more interchangability - ie two Grunts in a Minuteman core to go with one Minuteman in a Grunt core - goes someway towards fixing this. But ultimately, if you want to make the non-SWC profiles more enticing I feel the main method is the standard one of reducing costs that they pick up through their pointless CC&weapon, Dodge +1 and honestly probably the shock IMM as well given the lack of easy doctors and effective ARO piece.

    I dunno. Is an AP, Flamethrower+B, Forward Obs Minuteman for like 21pts more appealing? Not much more honestly, but I'd be hard pressed to say it is less so than the same profile with 4 points of attributes that barely affect it.

    Otherwise you need to redesign the unit pretty substantially. I'd be looking at Forward deployment +4 myself, goes well with the idea of 'minutemen'. More radical would be Parachutist - I'd argue this wouldn't automatically be broken due to needing to spend half of your order pool just appearing on the table. Another neat one would be Hidden Deployment. Its almost pure jank, but would be really cool and I guess appearing suddenly plays into the idea of minutemen too. Much less interesting is Marksmanship as one of those formula hacks that let you enjoy +3 BS for less than the cost of 3 BS. Given they are gunfighters without mimetism a skill like that could be warranted if they are intended to be good at their job.

    In vanilla I feel that the NCO HMG has some game as Hecaton mentioned - dunno what context he's discussing though. I experienced Ariadna pretty thoroughly in N2/N3 though not nearly as refined in N4, so am a little out of date. Its not the greatest HMG around, but having essentially a free order is a pretty decent draw card. Combine that with one of the redesigns above and it would be quite solid - though the other profiles don't really have any hope outside of their sectorial.
     
  7. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    • BS Attack (AP) lose Dodge
    • Change AP Rifle to T2
    • Swap specialists with Marauders (I still dont understand why that hasnt happened all these years)
    They'll be more expensive but people will think twice about fighting them and they'll have a clear distinction from everything else in Ariadna, and the game, well mormaers but AP grenades and flamethrowers ain't a thing yet, right. Make people fear America once again LMAO
     
    #227 wuji, Mar 27, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  8. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Minutemen are just bad. Marauders do the same things but better.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Marauders don't have AP hmgs and can't join a Grunt fireteam. Honestly I don't really run Marauders in N4; they were good when they could deploy 8" past your dz.
     
  10. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    I don't think i would ever take a Minuteman over UKR for a grunt team lead tbh.

    Marauders get some nifty toys and fill the same role of MI but they have the option of dogged.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You take both because you have the SWC and each one functionally brings an extra order for the fireteam.
     
  12. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    USAriadna needs an overhaul altogether.......
    i think that needs to be addressed rather than just treating the symptoms in minutemen.
     
    Tourniquet likes this.
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It needs some adjustments, sure. It can definitely win games just fine right now, but list-building is very restrictive.
     
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  14. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    I see this thread had not been active lately, so here is my proposition for a new unit to review:

    How would you fix Al Fasid?
     
    Cadwallon likes this.
  15. SpectralOwl

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    Quietly un-ruin Grenade Launchers by giving them back functional range bands, pretend it was a mistake all along?
     
  16. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Man, one can only dream. It's one of the decisions I least liked in N4, along with the Super Jump sillyness.
     
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  17. Hevy

    Hevy New Member

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    What happened to super jump? I have been out of it for a few years.
     
  18. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Let Druze take him.
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You can't fall in this edition, so super jump can't effectively be used to traverse terrain except for a few edge cases or if you've got 6 MOV.
     
  20. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    Give the Al Fasid an X-Visor, and let one of them Haris with Zheyedans

    Maybe a +1B heavy pistol too
     
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