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How to fix Pano

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zsolt, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Kran

    Kran Member

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    Make the Seraphs come with not one but two "Devilbots", one with the HFT and the other with a permanent smoke screen on it. And, of course, both with Super Jump.
     
  2. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    1) I have a new name for my GdA! He's already unfamiliar enough to most opponents that having a dumb name for him can't hurt at this point.

    2) Please more Eclipse smoke CB. I've been using it with my GdA a lot lately and it's opened up so many tactical avenues I've never explored before. Just having the ability to move through the open unopposed means that lists without big guns all-star pieces can suddenly have some game. Is this what other factions feel like? Do they NOT need to take a 60-115 point centerpiece gunner to play the game? I mean playing those centerpiece models is *fun*, and it's half the reason I started PanO. But with the GdA, sometimes my first turn isn't entirely about going on a murderous rampage just so I can move out of my deployment.
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Eclipse Grenades on Teutons, instant fix.
     
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  4. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Or on magisters!
     
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  5. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    I agree that pano already has lots of FO stuff. But so does haqq and yj and such. Further, the FO thing is almost purely an active turn action. Pano has a great deal of active turn drive, and a smaller number of reactive timesinks. I'm talking about reactive stuff that denies area in a way that takes advantage of the pano ballistic skill.

    For example (and just as an idea) a tool like Targeting Device (placed, thrown or launched? Targetless?). It shoots a marker that functions like a mine. Anyone that walks inyo the template enters the targeted state if they don't reset or something. Possibly with a reset -3 to counter the template. Stuff like that could be used in active turn but mostly make the opponents active turn harder... suddenly the flashpulse bots and TAG is hitting on 16 and 18s and the opponent might really reconsider using that path.

    Another idea is deployable equipment that shoots at an opponent once. Not a mine, but a one-shot TotalReaction combi rifle that activates in ARO only or simething.

    How about a shooting skill that can only be opposed by dodging (this is what i think mmx should do imo)?

    An auxbot that can target enemies - but otherwise isn't a specialist or has lethal weapons.

    Pano doesn't really need a hacking and scrapper game. It needs more stuff that says "these blue goons have a lot of money to make bullets fly straight."

    If CB is still in the habit of adding new weapons and skills, then why not? It's obvious that were not getting many toolboxes - that's not the pano thing, and I kinda don't want it to be. Any idea that I think might be valid is going to really push the shoot-everything-until-dead attitude.
     
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  6. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how to fix panO but i have a coouple of idea for making less boring MO
    -All Sergent order can link together except the 2 camo to profiles
    -Hospitaller 0-2(they can reacj a maximum of 4 only playing them with defersen)
    -Magister 0-2
    -Santiago 0-2(they can reacj a maximum of 4 only playing them with joan)
    -Teuron 6-2 mov
    -Montesa begun MI with 4-4 mov and 1W(drop prices around 33 pt)
    -New mixed Ft:
    Allow a mixed Ft like 2 magister+2 hospitaller+Koths/FK or 2 SO+2 magister+FK or Koths+3 SO+Santiago etc etc(i imagine that mix could create more type of Ft than usual 3magister+2hosp. Probably some type will be strong as 3mag+2hosp but playtesting will see what is possible and with thix mix maybe we will see some fk o koths on the table)
     
  7. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I forgot, AVAs are pretty bad (just look at Tohaa. they have 4 of the rare ones and 6 of the common ones). Just give enough AVA in MO to link properly without anything else, and keep the other knights AVA separated. Like 5 for main, 2 for anything else (confrere is not a word, CB!).

    I don't think it would mess up balance much if any knight would have Fireteam: Core. Some of them doesn't make much sense (like Sepulchre), just give people the chance, maybe they come up with something interesting.

    Magister knights and Father knights should be part of any knight link team. Just for fun. I don't really think the "either up to 2 knights and up to 3 magisters or full blown real knight link team" is necessary. Just mix and match however feels ok. I don't think it would break anything, but gives options. Options are good, even mediocre ones.

    Like 2 Montesa knights in mech deploy, 3 Magister knights in DZ, but they are still 8" the link leader, forming a link team. It possibly won't break the game, but would be interesting. But a BS14 LGL in a link at half the table!!! Emily has BS13 and no MD, still the world is in one piece.

    Regular 2 Hospitaler and 2 Magister link, now with extra Father knight added! Also, please fix FK profiles.

    Super jump for that Seraph aux bot, please. There's no reason for it to not have one. Name it Auxbot_3, so id's won't clash.

    Maybe strap a mimetism on the MSR friar, so the third Nisse like troop is fixed? Unnecessary redundancy seems to be Pano's thing. Add that to the no smoke list.

    Please remove the 0.5 SWC tax from FO Regular. It's unnecessary and doesn't make any sense.

    Give Bagh-mari a Heavy or Light rocket launcher?
     
  8. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    I really don't think the direction to go is just giving PanO smoke, warbands and chain rifles, because hey... Everyone has it, why not us!?

    If that's going to be the design philosophy, we would end up having all the same or similar profiles with different miniatures. And I really wouldn't play that.

    If anything, I really hope CB is really careful with new releases, and doesn't just fall in the temptation of giving new guys all the cool stuff available. Or the game would just die slowly.

    Let's keep PanO being PanO. Just give us some new stuff or even just some options with the troop profiles available to make it more fun.

    Some new fireteam options, and some tweaking on existing profiles and loadouts should be enough.

    If you'd gave me PanO smoke warbands, I'd stop playing Panoceania and start Aleph.

    #MAKEPANOGREATAGAIN
     
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  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    No that still breaks tuetons.

    Eclipse nades on tuetons fixes so many issues with tuetons with mo and with vanilla PanO its not funny
     
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  10. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I'd still play Pano. Aleph is ugly. :P
     
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  11. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

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    Or something like tinbot E (spotter)?
     
  12. Alz

    Alz Well-Known Member

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    What probably bothers me the most about many of the posts is that, despite many of the complains are regarding the PanO troop design (+1BS, add mimetism and/or MSV to something, new troop) many of the "solutions" given are more in the line of:

    >Change this weapon in this troop because its more optimal / because i like it more (Which does nothing about the faction flavour)
    >More mixed links (This can bring some flavour, but does not help vanilla)

    So I ask the question. What flavours is PanO lacking? What flavours do you think they should have?

    >Highly technified and drilled troops -> Top of the line IPs, high BS, we all know about this. I think auxbots also come in here. I see many comments about PanO not getting your usual Chain Rifle+Smoke Warband, but the Deployment Zone Defense role of those can be achieved with HFT Auxbots, which are also completely expendable. Which brings me to:

    Peacekeeper: Cheapish and efective assault murderbot with expendable corner HFT. Seems pretty legit to me, and makes me rise a point. Maybe we can see a bit more of "Assault" PanO with Mech. Deployment troops. I know that SAA is an old army it's unlikely to see it get new troops, but some sort of

    A) Sapper Mech. Dep. Zouave Style could add something that is not usualy in PanO.
    B) A second, more forward-oriented engineer for this spot, to make a REM-oriented assault force viable.
    C) Actually, a REM engineer sounds like a fun -and actually new- concept.

    I've also seen some comments about making use of the marked state. Given that FO is -I think- rarely used and spotlight is even worse, a new way to use that state could be something along these lines:

    Beacon Launcher
    Disposable (2), Targetless, Speculative Fire
    Range: 0-20: +0 ; 20-60: +3 ; 60-80: -3

    Beacon: ARM 0, BTS 0, S1
    Can be designated as objective by speculative fire or guided fire as it was a marked target. (Or something better written but around that concept. Basically a Biolocator launcher)

    This would make a "reliable" way to get a few guided/spec fire, which feels more tactical and synergistic than just shooting one grenade after another for the "bombardment route". Makes it easier to pick near targets hiding behind a corner but is probably not worth for a deep, enemy deployment assasination.

    I think another concept can be made from the "highly drilled" flavour with regards to coordinated orders. Some sort of troop/rule that either does not suffer Burst Penalty if leading a Coordinated Order (maybe a character?) or some sort of "coordinated order buffer" like:

    Director (Optional)
    A troop can use this special skill when it is the spearhead of a coordinated order. The troop does not shoot (does shoot but with a FO-like profile), but the rest of the members obtain a +1B bonus (Can't raise B over the weapon's original value).

    I think these do offer some options in the lines of PanO flavour in my eyes (Tactical, precise, technological, disciplined) more than just changing weapons on profiles.
     
  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    All of these are cool ideas but again, they are far more likely to appear in another factions because after a decade of this game being out, its pretty clear that CB design philosophy for generic Pano is to make them as bland and 1 dimensional as possible.

    All I want is more options in generic Pano so optimal lists aren't using the same handful of units. Eclipse on Teutonic Knights would be great and balanced because remember in generic they are ava 1 and in MO they can't link. KHD Father Knights would be amazing.
     
    #53 Death, Jul 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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  15. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Alms for the sepulcher as well , they deserve some love.
     
  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    If we created a list of units that work and units that dont, the donts are going to be longer than the dos
     
  17. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Would you not agree with me that is problematic.

    Albeit to be fair if the choice is between fixing the teuton or fixing nothing at all , you'll find that I'll quickly paint myself white and black and crusade east
     
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  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Oh i agree. Just stating the sad truth
     
  19. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Because they already have both? I'm confused here.
     
  20. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that as an argument. Lot of broken stuff here, most of them will stay broken :)

    Imo Magisters and Teutons try to compete for the same, or very similar role. Actually, most of the knights lack flavors imo. Hospitalers are the frenzy knight with HMG and Doctor (and HMG is a thing because all others only have spitfires for no reason), Santiagos are the frenzy knights with 360 visor (isn't that a ridiculously expensive piece of equipment pointwise?), Teutons are the frenzy knights with Berserk, Sepulchre are the frenzy less knights with Holo, Montesa are the frenzy less knights with mech deploy (who are supposed to be fast, but they are just thin armored), Father knight are the frenzy less knights in big armor and combi rifles with no useful skill.

    It still feels CB had more knight orders than ideas. A lot more.
     
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