I seem to remember when we were the "IP faction" and the "CC faction". But that's another example of CB lacking creativity or just not caring for some factions.
Faction focus on particular unit type should translate into these units being better optimized than their counterparts in other factions, pretty much like PanO TAGs are first rate, and lose only when compared to very expensive ones like Avatar or Marut. In YJ's case it could mean more HI's getting 6-2 MOV (maybe aside from Zu Yongs, which would make Shang Ji shine a bit more), or Stealth, or better BTS, and in general things that either make them better at their task, or give them more flexibility. No bloat.
Hey it looks like the good old days of Yu Jing XD, even with some of the same forum users. PD: if you want to fix Pano better look at Vanilla Yu Jing, it is the mirror faction with less CD for some toys. At least you can kill things with more than one or two models, If i lose the Su Jian/ Hac Tao etc my list tend to be let's trust in chain rifles.
No bloat? What am I going to do with this Terrain: Kicked Puppies then? No. Must remain helpful. Kaeltar Specialists. But with Auxbots.
This lack of reading comprehension shouldnt even be possible. It hardly feels worth addressing. But there were 10 pages of discussion and theorycrafting before people came to shit on the parade like you do. Also if you wanna talk about a misguided sense of entitlement look at the action of going into another factions forum and telling them what types of thread they can ans can't have.
For some reason the forum thought it would be a good idea to turn off notifications on this topic, so I have a lot to catch up on. Why? Akal: PH11. Crusader: PH11. Kirpal: PH12. He's better at jumping than anything is Pano. No issue here. He's even better at jumping than an 8 pts Yuan yuan with Inferior combat jump! Imo our AD troops are bad. Akal's only appeal is that it's cheap. Kirpal is ridiculosly expensive and bloated. Crusader is also expensive. Each of them is paper thin and goes down to the first bad roll, and there's no coming back from that. Also they can't jump. For some reason everyone in Ariadna is ripped as hell, while no one lifts in the professional Pano army. So they can only walk. Maybe I'm playing too much Tohaa, but it seems that Wound is overpriced, and it's seems really weird to use expensive but W1 troops with no pseudo wounds or anything. CoC could go on some elite stuff like Father Knights (after they drop the combis), or Aquilla (give that dude a HMG LT option pls). Or maybe even Swiss. Actually I'd prefer CoC on something cheap, so I can have an LT Fusilier hiding on one roof and a CoC Fusilier hiding on an other. It feels that Hac Tao is what the Hexa should be. Combi rifles and AHDs are outdated by power creep, so maybe we should get stuff instead of those. Main problem with them is the price. KHD is ridiculously cheap, and combi rifle is ridiculously expensive compared to budget weapons like SMG, light shotgun, assault pistol etc. Erm. Heavy armor and nothing else? So like stand around and take up space? Somehow fix De Fersen! Before KHD he was a good but mildly expensive troop. Now he can't step out of the door without getting his brain fried. AVA 3 Fugazi for Vanilla and everyone else? That sensor net is just cool. And non-sophisticated options are way better. Chain colt comes for free, chain rifle is better, HFT/LFT is way way better. Imo Trauma doc and Machinist are still boring and bad, the only thing saving them is cubes and remote presence. I think we need some redundancy in engineering to have some chance to do objectives while having the engineer repairing stuff. You can't really have your engineer stay alive hiding behind lines and repair your TAG with servants and also run up to objectives or do classifieds (I'm not sure if there are still classifieds with engineering now that retro is gone though).
Sorry, Zsolt, but this sounds like pure wishlisting without considering faction theme and balance. And the comment about Hac Tao/Hexa got me baffled. Regarding AD: Ariadna doesn't have access to EVO. We do. Combat Jumping using EVO assist is actually pretty useful tactic, and one that hardly anyone expects. The problem with our AD is that both our jumpers are pretty much the same unit. Same stats aside from Crusaders having better ARM and BTS, both have Combat Jump, Religious and nothing else. Crusaders have access to HMG and MRifle/LFT, Akalis have hacker, E/Mitter, and E/M CCWs. That's it for the differences. Another showcase for the lack of creativity I'm talking about. Now imagine making them a bit different; Crusaders pushed into fire support role, Akalis - CQB/CC, so both bring something different into their sectorials. Crusaders could lose BS, get some different weapon (I'd love to say Feuerbach, but by now I'd love to see it anywhere in PanO :P ). Akalis could get their BS lowered to 12, get stronger CC and MA2, exchange Spitfire for some different loadout, maybe SMG+Nanopulser. Different units, optimized for different tasks. Regarding Command&Control: Father-Knights and Rao look like the best candidates for CoC (Father Knights should actually be remade into Command&Control unit with maybe half the choices they have now, Number2, etc). Aquila (and F-K Lt's) are a good candidates for Strategos L1/2 or Advanced Command. Hexa is a perfect unit for Executive Order. Cheap CoC would be too much (as would be cheap Doctor and Engineer alternatives, I like the idea of having either cheap, barebone options, or expensive versions, like Hospitaller doc). All in all this should be one of PanO themes: regular army without Irregulars, Warbands, or cheap throwaways in general, but with strong C&C net, good Lt. choices, redundancy and contingency plans when it comes to battlefield command. Regarding weapon and equipment choices and prices: Combis are pretty good, the only problem is arming elite HIs with them. Seriously, it has its place in units which will be linkable, like ORCs, but on F-Ks? Sepulchre? Teutons? C'mon, CB. KHDs are too cheap in general, they should cost 0.5 SWC like all HD's.
I still think those perimeter defense turrets weve discussed time and again would also function as a nice alternative to warbands. Immobile, bs 10 turrets with a burst 1 weapon for like 6-8 points. Ofcourse the option can be explored. I think there are a lot of great ideas in this thread, CB doesnt have to implement all of them, hell it could implement none as long as it comes up with its own solutions. Like @Stiopa said, we just want the same care taken in our design as others. Its time to move past the +1 bs design stage.
It is wishlisting :) The thought here was fluffwise Hexa is the ultra secret unit that are authorized to do anything anyhow they want, like James Bond without banging everything that moves or John Wick without the rampage. Hexa is now an LI dude with a TO. Which is nice and all, but bit less awesome. On the other hand Hac Tao is the YuJing Swiss with cool loadouts and the "I'm the boss now" executive order. Sounds a bit cooler. On AD, PH 11 + 3 with the chance of enemy FtF-ing doesn't seem like a high chance. It may be, but it still seems safer to just walk in out of LoF. I can totally live without irregulars. Cheap warbands sound fun, but maybe expensive HI warbands like Magisters are more fun. I still miss the smoke. Is Executive command actually useful? A corner case would be to use it as a pseudo CoC, expecting your LT to die that order, you can Alert with something, and bring out your troop from Hidden deployment, thus changing your LT to that. Otherwise it's just a 1pt LT option, which is usually free. My problem is not actually combi rifle, it's all the other weapons that are lot cheaper but not lot worse.
More to the point, they don't even have Airborne Infiltration*, let alone Combat Jump... *EDIT - outside of Mirage-5.
Swiss and Hac Tao are elite combat troops, while Hexa is more the secret agent/behind enemy lines operative. They usually travel light. EO is there for that "Hexahedron Operative #youdon'tneedtoknow, I'm assuming command" vibe. And yeah, making Teutons and Magisters expensive PanO warbands is exactly the way to go :) Which is exactly the point; we can either take the safer - but tactically limited - way in (and a smart enemy can guard table borders, so there's that), or take the high risk - high reward option and jump. What I'm saying is that this risk is worth taking more often, than people think. But their approach is understandable, as players, especially competetive ones, tend to eliminate variables from their gameplay. Also, as ijw said, Ariadna has high PH, but no higher levels of AD.
And Feuerbach ORCs, and another parachutist, and camo toads, and what seem to be a skirmisher recon unit.
Weapon options: MSR, Shock Marksman, LRL, Red Fury - so I imagine something with more flexibility than Chaksas. Also, it appears - for now, at least - that CB indeed goes for something creative for PanO. Color me wary, but optimistic. This still leaves the existing problems to be adressed, though. Not to mention that I don't think us getting a fourth sectorial is really fair for other faction players.
They gave Orc's Feuerbach? Can it be true? Is Pano actually using a weapon they produce? Could this be available for the Haris links in the other sectorials? Oh please......... Camo toads, I wonder if they will be sectorial only or is Pano finally getting a camo unit. I'll not get my hopes up about that but one can wish.
