But see, this comes back to the original argument in this thread about what you mean with the word "benefited". What the devs likely see is that both factions are equally viable in tournaments and both factions are selling well. What the two factions are doing when looking at each others units is 'want' or even 'covet', not 'need' in the devs perspective. Some niches or gaps won't be filled in each faction by design. And as long as the faction remains 'viable' and sells well, that design itself won't change.
for an example, what are some of the est tactics and tools in PanO? The combination of Pathfinder and 2 fugazi, Not because they do something for us that other factions cant do, everyone has access to them. But because PanO as a faction makes better use of them than any other list in the game. Not only does a sniffer sensor net break our limitations at discovering Camo such as our low wip by creating large no-camo and no-hidden areas on the table, but it combos further by providing a means of putting the opponent in the targetted state without relying on cheap FO spam, or Hackers, both of which are not the PanO forte. This then stacks well with our access to by and far the best speculative fire platforms in the game in teh Regular hacker, the Fusilier Lgl, the Montessa Lgl and the Squalo to punish people that attempt to hide and turtle rather than fight out bigger guns directly. Using tools that people have access too in other armies doesnt mean those tools dont work better in PanOceania given teh context of our list as a whole. The EVO hacker is another tool thats similar to this, its all about looking at problems a different way to the main infinity group think. Dont play their game, play ours
Squalo ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 SQUALO (Armored Cav.) MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / AP Heavy Pistol. (2.5 | 95) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) GROUP 2 4 HEXA MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 32) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army One of my favourites. It does so much to dictate the game, not the least it puts the opponent in multiple binds. for example. which group do you strip? if its the squalo that leaves the Fugazi unmolested to push into the midfield, drop a sniffer or two and create a Kill box where everything inside dies on 18s, Camo and HD gets jobbed on 19s, Satlock goes off on 13s (and they cant turn your sniffer off with hackers on the orders you satlock, nor can they hack the pathfinder) If they strip the Fugazi, goodo, they are B2 flashpulses and an ARO group and I have 10 orders for a squalo and friends. If they sit out on ARO they die to the squalo, they likely cant push vs the massed BS flashes and the B2 ML either. Its got the abillity to jank and job hackers and people that try and ignore you or push for the kill with the Hexa MSR Heres another. Uhlan ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 UHLAN HMG, Feuerbach / . (2 | 99) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FUSILIER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) GROUP 2 4 AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Puts the opponent in similar binds through other means,. It leverages our High AVA rems. Most importantly both lists follow the principle that an order is worthless if you have no way to spend it effectively. Ive not just tried to spam the most orders possible, Im taking everything wiht multiple interlocking and overlapping roles in mind. The easiest way to say it is I would rather an FO fusilier who is BS12 specialist with a combi then I would rather an 8 pt mulebot and a netrod if we had them available
I am very confused about the direction this thread has taken.... Come on everyone lets go back to complaining about PanO!
See but that design gap seems to slowly be filled for other factions yet limitations are kept in pano for arbitrary reasons. Nomads gained in the kriza for example a giant fire supremacy suit that was originally out of the scope of their faction. Filling gaps that existed by "design". Since n3 all the factions have been little patches here and there removing gaps in their design aspect except pano. Also people arent asking for unreasonable things, nobody is requesting a full auto swiss guard. They ask for things that fill said gaps in interesting ways. Like eclipse smoke on teuton, no regular smoke and hence no smoke trick for pano. More auxbot deployment to circumvent the lack of warbands. So on and so forth.
Maybe but I don't think they are arbitrary. Is it really out of Nomads scope? I mean it's not even there first S5 HMG platform. I do think it seams to have wondered in from Morats somehow but then I think the a shippingcrate got Yu Jings Taskmaster and Nomads Robotransformerkitty mixed up. but all of that is fluff and not super important to the game aspect of the game. Personally the Hallowmen bother me more in Nomads then the Kriza. A lot of Nomad troops tend to have 1 to 1 comparisons between the sectorials MB link + Gecko Duo Grrl link + Taskmaster Duo Hallow + Kriza Duo Just out of curiosity what where those other gaps? they must have been before my time. I have seen some unreasonable things lol. Still what is considered unreasonable is likely to change from person to person.
yes, the kriza aboslutely is a BS profile outside of the nomad scope But its only the HMG profile, the others are fine but the discounted streamlining of the HMG kriza is a mistake that should anger Nomad players as much as PanO. The stupid thing fights almost as well as a salamander for bloody wept
The gaps were supposed to exist by design are honestly too many for me to name and list em all. And while im sure im forgetting some. - true heavy infantry and hackers in ariadna. -direct assault hi solo pieces in nomads.(now they have one of the best in game overshadowing many yujing and pano pieces) -killer hackers in CA. - yu jing had some as well but i think its unfair to incluede them after what happened. Im curious to see what you list as the unreasonable requests. Surely it can be something like requesting the knight profiles be different yet all useful in their own right ? Or that the seraph auxbot super jump with it ?
The Kriza would be the only one of those that existed by design. Combined Killer Hackers, in particular, were always known to be coming, due to the EI version of the Killer Hacking Device getting it's own Upgrade Program...
Well again its a question of NEED vs want. Playing devils advocate here: perhaps the other factions needed some filling to help them sell and/or win which as established, isn't that much of an issue for PanO overall. I accept that argument doesn't hold as well for individual sectorials but we're largely in a good place. Warts and all were still one of strongest factions. But even when CB fills gaps for us, people are complaining that the gap filler doesn't wear a blue hat - see Dart, Nagas etc for more info. All that being said I don't think there's any reasonable justification for the Kriza being the way he is. The only thing that I can think of is that they're being more aggressive about breaking established design spaces in the new sectorials and underestimating the implications for Vanilla. On that note though, have hope for what that means for PanO post Varuna XD Pardon mistakes. On phone at airport. Hate thumb typing.
So how about a Tohaa and KHD (which appraently is really needed by them) ? What MO "weaknesses" have been fixed, and what advantages does it have over the factions which have Harris, KHD, WB, asymetric trading etc. ? (if the answer is "Order Sergeants have not native linkable specialist" then we don't have too much to speak about :( )
I hope part of the Kriza’s design philosophy was to level the shooting game with Pano to open up new design opportunities. I don’t thats true but ya know.
What, did everyone forget the new TAGs the combine army got, making them the second TAG faction. All the additions nomads keep getting to expand their capabilities. Tell me, what has Pano gotten to expand the capabilities of generic Pano? Dart is a perfect example. Great unit, unavailable to generic Pano.
I feel like it is important to make a distinction here: The issue is likely less that "the gap filler doesn't wear a blue hat" but the gap filler not wearing a blue hat in a sectorial specializing in the kinds of things they are should have a native unit for filling that gap. Imagine if Ariadna's only access to Antipodes came from a Haqqislam unit. That's what this is like with Dart and the Nagas in Shock Army. The jungle warriors have no native skirmisher profiles and people decry it as PanO players not liking the fact that the gapfiller doesn't wear a blue hat?
