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How popular are/how do you run your single-group lists?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Maksimas, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    The idea seems solid and nice... but I can't help but notice I can't seem to find the Lieutenant.
     
  2. leigen_zero

    leigen_zero Morat Pacifist

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    Private information :sunglasses:

    Nah like I said it's something I was noodling about with on a lunchbreak, so it's not a complete lists, just something to start from.

    Here's a version where you drop the hacker from the rodok haris to make it a lt:
    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
    MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    RODOK (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK Lieutenant Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    RODOK HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Sogarat loses FA2 (I'm still a bit salty you can't have a FA2 fb lt), but anyat comes out to play
    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    SOGARAT Lieutenant Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 57)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
    ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    RODOK (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, 2 Light Shotguns / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    RODOK Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    6 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Or if you know there's gonna be camo agogo, swap the rodok haris for a yaogat one:
    Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    SOGARAT (Full Auto L2) Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 67)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
    MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    MORAT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MORAT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YAOGAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29)
    YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    YAOGAT Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #22 leigen_zero, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    toadchild likes this.
  3. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Well, as I said, it does seem like a solid idea.
    I think I can get the logic going in behind it, at least.
     
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    Over here in São Paulo the general consensus is that LI is better and more fun to play, to the point that whenever we organize an ITS tourney we get people asking for LI format.

    However, I do believe that part of the reasoning for that is we got a lot of new players in the last year, so many people are still building their collection and/or learning their army, so managing 10 models is easier and more fun for them, which is something I'm on board with.

    I myself prefer single group, HI heavy lists, and I've managed to acquit myself well with them both on LI tourneys and even fighting full on, spammy lists. There is one important point about LI, though, which is initiative. I always get the feeling that whoever wins initiative in this format already has a huge lead on the game.
     
  5. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    The immunity to the tactical use of a command token to limit your orders does lead to that, I suppose.

    Spammy lists are a bit tough to deal with sometimes, depending on what sort of spammy lists we're talking about...
    ARO swamp lists are a right pain to deal with, having to wade through ARO after ARO after ARO after some random CrazyKoala busting through a wall like the Kool Aid man through another ARO... it does end up grinding you down by attrition, doesn't it?
    Though on the other end... playing against spammy lists that are oriented on sinking a lot of order fuel into select units is a lot more manageable. After all... what use does the enemy have for all that gas when you shot out their tires? Such lists tend to crumble down really fast once you eliminate the legitimate threats, and then simply leverage your quality over quantity in the safe knowledge that most stuff the enemy has remaining is of meager threat: yes, a meek camo infiltrator can do some damage... but it's still a meek camo infiltrator when it's the only one with at least a snowballs chance in hell to try facing off a TAG and a S5 NWI HI.

    Basically how I first got into the enjoyment of using single group lists. Easy to learn, easy to manage, relatively easy to build.
    I've stuck with them though, since I do find them quite a bit more enjoyable either way. Not to say multi-group lists aren't fun... just saying I find more enjoyable lists fit into a single group as opposed to two or three.
     
    DaRedOne likes this.
  6. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    I tend to have trouble building single combat group lists.

    It just isn't a playstyle that I jive with. I like being specialist-heavy with a broad, flexible footprint on the table. It isn't necessarily the most effective way to play, but I enjoy it. I prefer to have units that get to where they need to be quickly, do what they have to do, and then hang around annoying the enemy with AROs while the Orders get spent on other units doing their own jobs.

    Shoot that guy or keep moving? He dropped a mine, do you pass up the opportunity to shoot him with a Normal roll? I wanted that mine there anyway, this dude otherwise already did his job, and now I get to have my cake and eat it too by putting down my mine with an ARO. What do I care if you kill him? In fact, I'd rather your Rambo unit shot him instead of moving closer to my DZ. But if you don't kill him now, is he going to drop into Suppressive Fire next turn? Is he going to re-camo? Decisions, decisions...

    That's the kind of gameplay I enjoy, setting up situations in which my opponent is spending Orders inefficiently or is otherwise unhappy about a set of options.

    You can do that with a LI list, too, certainly, but I like it better when models punch above their weight. Who cares when a BS 13 HI with an HMG and visual MODs wins a face-to-face roll? Congrats. But when a couple of Morlocks are giving you a bad day... well, that's a whole lot more interesting.
     
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  7. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, last Interplanetary was held in LI format IIRC, and also people played a lot of LI to prepare themselves or just because it was a flavour of the season.

    Apparently, initiative means a ton if we go by statistics that was acquired, and some people believe -2 order immunity needs to go if the opponent also brings a single combat group list.

    Tbh that's one of the concerns I have about moving to SCG lists. I would run them for the sake of speeding up the game, but I have no idea how not to make results of going second a foregone conclusion.
     
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  8. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Hey, if it works for you... why fix it? After all, it ain't broke.
    To each their own, really.

    Mind games are always fun, especially when you can make them double guess on what the best option is.
    This is especially fun if you get your opponent into a false sense of advantage: ''What a fool, this guy forgot to recamo his infiltrator! I'll just mop him up after I move my killer into position...'' and then you are happy to have baited an important piece either into a death trap or away from where it would have been a pain for you to deal with. ''Just as planned'' moments are amazing.

    Yeah, it is possible with a LI list, except it's less volumetric:
    Instead of worrying about what sort of warbands are in your way ( Or there might still be some, it's not too difficult fitting one or two into a LI list depending on the overall list, I find. ) and how many mines/infiltrators/annoying buggers you'll have to wade through... you have to wager whether your head is tougher or the metaphorical wall of raw partial-cover brawn that's in your way is tougher. Both have it's merits, both have it's moments.
    A matter of taste, really.

    I second this suggestion. It's good at closing that initial gap between someone who took a single group and someone who's rocking 18+ effective orders, but it does feel odd when two SCGs go at it...
     
  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Like this:

    Highly Classified 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    ANATHEMATIC Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 88)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SPECULO KILLER Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 35)
    KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MORAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    RASYAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 28)
    MAAKREP TRACKER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)

    3.5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This was against an IA LI list as well. If the Rasyat hadn't botched his landing along with the Speculo rolling a 1 against an electric pulse in the first 3 orders of the game, I think I would have been in a very good position to win the match.
     
  10. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Two risky things, even I had to say the Speculo was unlucky. Nothing I would build my strategy on.
    But our playstyles are different.
     
  11. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Those are some painful rolls...

    Yeah, seems about right for a highly classified mission.
     
  12. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Both of those units were for assassinating key specialists and ARO threats (also, my secret objective was predator). The fact that they failed didn't lose me the game, but it did force me to completely reorient the rest of my forces for defense (I was going first, if that wasn't clear) and didn't dent his order pool at all. I also had a few misplays and ultimately lost 9-1, but the game was a bit closer than that final score would seem to suggest. For all the redundancy I had, 2 of the 4 public objectives were elite/vet/CoC, one was visors/sensor and one was for an engineer (was the only one I accomplished).

    Oh, and the list I actually brought swapped out bit/kiss for a vanguard hacker, which I regretted. I think trying to fit an E-drone in there for Exile would have been a decent build as well, as I knew I was facing a sectorial.
     
  13. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    My preferred TAK lists are limited insertion. This is because:
    -I am a fan of the big pain train style fireteams with at least 2 vets
    -I tend to go first and prefer an aggressive playstyle
    -I like taking Voronin, despite his stupid base size
     
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  14. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    He have big dog.
    That is good enough reason for me.

    Pain trains can be a pain to maneuver... but they do work well when you can maneuver them into position.
     
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  15. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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    Why do it other than during LI tournaments?
     
  16. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Honestly... I just prefer playing these sort of lists.
    And trying to come up with a larger list tends to get complicated real fast for me, particularly when I start looking at the list and thinking ''Okay, I have the orders here, I have the AROs and all the other support stuff... but what the hell am I supposed to do if this guy dies? Nobody else in this Combat Group does what this guy does... better add another guy somehow.''
    Which usually ends up looping back to a single combat group...

    Beyond that... I dunno, I've been having good enough luck playing against order spam lists. Maybe they've all been poorly made and had obviously exploitable flaws, maybe I was just lucky. But it's been doing fine so far...
     
  17. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Because Avatars are fun to play and building a multi-CG Avatar list is rough going ;).
     
  18. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    One problem I tend to have with single combat group lists is that its simply a harder puzzle in list building. You have a set and small number of slots, and the troops you need to select for them are odd and large costs, making it harder to hit closely but not above to the right amount of points and swc. This sometimes means I need to add things I dont really want or delete things I do, or not use my points well. Compare to a spammier list where you can just keep on adding cheap things till you run out.

    Couple of solutions to this might be to allow single combat groups to exchange swc, or command tokens for pts (at a less favourable ratio) or vice versa. Or else add more optional extras into the game that take pts but not troop slots - say more kinds of g sync or g servant bots with more variable costs.
     
  19. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Personally, I think that might be tilting the balance a bit too far into the favor of single group lists.

    Yeah, it does get weird when you end up accidentally going too cheap on your list and end up having to start up-scaling stuff in odd ways. This does tend to manifest more often in certain factions/sectorials than others, I notice.
    Personally, I do enjoy this ''puzzle'' aspect of making a single group list: it's like having to build a proper deck with a deck size limit. You gotta consider and reconsider what stuff you really need to have or if you could perhaps shuffle some stuff about into a more effective form.
     
    Hachiman Taro likes this.
  20. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    Depends on the set of missions and if it's ITS or not :P

    For the most part I just have a checklist of stuff. Good variety of weapons to cover all range bands, an MSV2 or sensor unit, 4-5 specialists, maybe a unit I've never used or have rarely used before, etc. With YJ I'm throwing in more HI units then I would with Aleph.
     
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