I Agree the SMG is a "cheat weapon", with AP and Shock ammo for less cost than the Combi "because of range"... That is more a problem of the game's system, in which cheap troops that can only do one thing are better than a more expensive troop that can do 2-3, since you can take redundancies you use as cheerleaders and that. In theory, you are saving on movement orders, but... Only on Fireteams or really cheap troops you don't care if they live or not.
You can easily see how expensive combi range is when you compare Fusiliers to CSU with Rifle+LSG, Nanopulser, Specialist Operative, SS1, Metachemistry :D
A devastatingly large number of sock ammo, my bolts are making their bioimmunity look like the best skill ever.
Same as any AD troop that is not a Doctor or Engineer. Look, Raoul Spector is Irregular if AD, Regular if not. It gives an idea no? Ok, "Glass Rambo": meaning it will hog orders until killed.
Except most of the time Shock is an option (MULTI weapons, SMGs, Marksman being Optional, etc). So nice.
Yeah, but what i said before is that frenzy is not that much of a problem, since it takes time to activate. A frenzy trooper going impetuous and that being a problem ? Sincerely, how many times does it really happens in a real game ? Especially since on the contrary you can use it as an advantage, as i said earlier ? An opponent having some big problem on the form of some frenzy unit doing some kills on him, and knowing that problem will only get worse since said troop will get a free order to do even more rampage next turn ? Frenzy is not only giving a free order, it is also giving a psychological advantage.
Hi, I am Achilles. I start using the Lt order, then my regular order, something dies. Next turn I will have an extra order to burn. Hi, I am Eudoros. I am EXTREMELY impetuous, and move before anyone with my ODD and my Eclipse Grenades. Then I have my regular order, and I can have the Lt order (he has a Lt option, with WP14). Unless I'm linked with at least 1 chain rifle Myrmidon, in which case neither will be subjected to Fury... So Suddenly Eudoros gain Cover and it's not forced to do (or compensate) that. The problem is that Fury levels give points discount, and Fury gets frozen while inside of a Fireteam. So as long as you play a sectorial, surprise! you can deploy some Fury-"impaired" units without suffereing the Fury effects.
But even if you're not in a sectorial or a fireteam, frenzy (i'm just talking about frenzy) is not that much of a problem. Impetuous and ext. impetuous have their problems, notably the lack of cover, but frenzy is rather mild. You essentially benefit from the discount and the advantage of impetuous without that much problems. If you take a lone myrmidon in vanilla, if he becomes impetuous it means he has already damaged something, meaning he has probably already done his job - and even so, he will stay normal till your next active turn, before being impetuous, which is not even a straight drawback but brings benefit too.
Guys, guys! The discussion is about the prevalence or not of shock, not if the frenzy discount is warranted or not. I think there is a bit too much of shock in the game right now, and it does bother me as I seldom see an NWI model even get to use that skill nowadays. It's either 'smash it with 4-6 dice worth of damage' or 'hit it with shock' roughly 80% of the time. Kinda makes the skill fell pointless in my opinion. On the other hand, giving every model with NWI shock immunity would be kinda overpowered too, so I don't know what to do. Perhaps give smgs a 0.5 swc cost?
I guess im different in the way i feel that nwi is still worth while. For me every living model in some of my lists excluding danavas is dogged+. The argument that shock is prevelant is fair, but saying nwi worthless is not. Nwi is extremely cheap for aleph. Most proxies have it and it comes up often. Also if nwi is worthless, then1 of haqqs main strive to fame of doctor plus everywhere works be equally worthless.
Because it would be as expensive as a Deva Functionary, or a Naga... The AHD is uninteresing enough, imagine if it costed 28-30pts...
Simply dropping the price of NWI a point or two would start to help. And absolutely return Shock Immunity to 2W models. So is mine. In fact, I try to build those kinds of lists on purpose, up to not using Danavas at all out of protest of a Nomad profile in Aleph. For one, nobody is saying NWI is worthless, merely that it doesn't feel right and that it is overpriced. And no, NWI is not extremely cheap for Aleph. I didn't think I'd have to say it explicitly, but I'm not advocating for reducing the price of Posthumans. They are a special case which is a completely different discussion. I'm advocating for reducing the price of units which pay for NWI and yet most often don't really get to use it when they could, units like Devas, Sophotect, Teucer. As I noted in previous post, Devas, Dasyu, Sophotects all kept their price from N2 (while over the whole game profiles on average got a bit cheaper), yet Shock and Viral ammo is vastly more prevalent in all armies. Today, your army will almost certainly include multiple units with Shock ammo in some form (ignoring CCWs) without you even trying. Here's a nice experiment. Look through the lists you have saved and note how many % of those lists have access to Shock (you can ignore Trinity Hacking Program, CCWs, and maybe separate out those who only have shock on mines). I checked my 10 ITS-saved lists: All had mines. All but one had a Hacker and reasonable REMs to upgrade (so something better than just a Dakini Combi Rifle or Unidron FO - although those are enough). Only one did not have the Hacker or any other Shock weapon, but that list had 5 sources of Mines and a KHD so I think Shock was covered just fine. And 7 of those 10 lists were vanilla Aleph (without using Thorakitai!), which is infamous for having low access to "special" ammo types. If most Haqq models had it and it didn't have any other use than healing models, then yes, you'd be right. But only the occasional model has it, and main purpose is objectives and healing is when you get a chance. So drop the bad arguments. Because Devas are available in NCA. Let me explain. Danavas is an troop profile nobody needed. They should've just upgraded the Deva HD into an HD+ and maybe downgraded to a cheaper weapon and be done with it. But, Devas are available in NCA and for this reason or that NCA can't have HD+. So, instead they give us a Nomad profile which does not fit at all with the rest of Aleph. Sure, it gives us some tools. But it does not fit the fluff and hence Danavas does not enter my lists. I do bet they're gonna include her in Dakini links, so I'll probably have to play it... I'm both looking forward to but also dreading Vedic, to see all the "nice" new and updated profiles we get.. I fear they'll be in the same direction. Frankly, I'd rather have the overpriced mess that is Teucers profile then another Scylla or Danavas profile.
As a Nomad player who frequently faces ALEPH, I resent calling the Danavas a Nomad Profile. That's an Interventor wannabe at best :D Honestly, though, I am in favor of a points reduction in the cost of NWI.
Danavas is the strongest offensive hacker in the game. An interventor khd with lightning has an edge against her (active player wins), yet she can do so much more than the khd can with ability to stop rems, HIs, and tags as well as go toe to toe with other killer hackers. Literally the only thing she cant do is have this fight through an enemy repeater, which is fine as for me it happens very rarely, i prefer using my pitcher and repeater bots to get the area i want. Now to NWI Devas are not overcosted because of nwi, they are boring even several points cheaper. The only 2 models of interest that i regularly use is sensor LT and spitfire msv2. The devabot version is cute and the one that might see play if cheaper because its unique, not due to the nwi. So devabot i agree with. Tuecer is unplayed because atalanta does his job but better. Nwi is not relevant as +3 bs, 0.5 swc cheaper and range 32+ matter. Even if same costed i would use atalanta instead. And i use dasyu, the khd version is solid, i just am liking minelayer naga a bunch right now. And sophetect is bad because mk1 engineer and nwi exists. I have no need sometimes for a doctor as there is no living model besides the danavas that can go unc. Also mk1 doc + thor engineer is 28 points, much nicer than a bs 11 model with no defensive tech. So i argue that there is the only model that may be to expensive and useful which is deva + devabot and because it actually is on the line of being legit good because the devabot is a unique enough tool. The rest i disagree with.
