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How many side games can Infinity N4 survive?

Discussion in 'News' started by zapp, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Double post
     
    #141 AmPm, Nov 17, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  2. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Yea, better to stew in a ton of internal and external balance issues, have models missing from years old factions, ignore updating factions properly for n4, keep throwing in random crossover profiles that make the game less focused and the factions more similar, etc.

    Wouldn't want someone to have to deal with update every couple months.

    GW is making a better effort at this point...
     
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  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really understanding why some companies, established, are doing KS. So it looks like about 2,200 backers of the TAG Raid KS will get this game. I have no idea on how many will actually play it. If they had come out with it like a normal game, like A! was. I'm sure they could have gotten at least that many people or more to buy into the game. 2,200 is such a small amount of people compared to Infinity. Why put so much work into such a small amount of buyers? Can a game have a general release after a KS?

    Defiance was over 5,300 backers BTW.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't count on them being able to reach that many through a traditional release - Kickstarters like these do tend to generate a hype at relatively low cost that a traditional release may have problems generating. It takes investment to launch an on-going product like a traditionally released game that's going out to brick-and-mortar or the online shop, and they might not have that capital. Plus with the release cycle being much longer than a KS, you also need a production facility that can operate over longer terms.
    On top of this there's the risks to consider, a traditional release tends to demand that you're able to ship stuff within hours, not months, meaning they need to take risks in producing the products before they know if anyone will even buy it.

    With a KS the company can raise funds to do a large single-run product without going to investors who want financial kickback and without having extensive supply contracts with wherever the stuff is produced. So a KS allows medium sized companies like Corvus Belli to do a side-project that makes stuff that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to do. There is also a bit of scalability to consider, though projects that scale with more customers are the ones you tend to hear about crashing and burning (so many kickstarters have failed because rewards far outstripped the kickstarter person's ability to deliver)
     
    #144 Mahtamori, Nov 17, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
  5. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

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    I think doing the KS after the Witcher Warcaster and Nemesis game hurt CB a bit this time around
     
  6. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    That's entirely the point of kickstarter though, to have that niche product that you're not sure will succeed, so you can basically see how much interest is in it with very little initial investment. You can avoid all the people that say they'd buy an entire Exrah faction, but then decide it's too expensive when you actually make it. Certainly, the downside is the one & done part of it, but they could always do a reprint (with kickstarter or not) or an updated variation of the game if it proves especially durable.

    There are plenty of cases in the past where a company got too invested in a new product launch that fizzled and nearly caused the company to collapse, Kickstarter can reduce/ eliminate that risk.
     
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  7. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    I think, we would see N5 anyway. Despite side projests. But it would be later than it could be without them.
    (But I like, that Aristeia exists.)
     
  8. micropoint

    micropoint Member

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    Concerning CB getting tired of updating Infinity. CB are making a game and getting assumably enough money out of it to put food on table. That is what you call a dream job. I'm sure it gets old at some point as much as anything else, then again how many love their dayjob yet still keep working? What divides an amateur and professional is that amateur gets tired and starts looking elsewhere while professional overcomes this and continues to work with diligence. I'm firmly it the "N4 needs upkeeping and tuning" camp. I can and prefer to live without obscure KS profiles, they are not much of a hype if one does not "Kickstarter". Right now I'm wondering where people keep finding these Monster-hunter (or whatever they're called) profiles..
     
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    It's on the Kickstarter page under Updates. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/corvusbelli/infinity-deathmatch-tag-raid/posts/3358368

    I'm hoping they take a year off to concentrate on Infinity. Eventually they are going to run out of ideas of games that can be associated with Infinity anyway. Though the REM Racer makes me think that's the next KS.
     
  10. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    Not seeing this CB is bored of infinity people are talking about.

    N4 has been out for a year, that year has been a write off for most people on the planet much like the one before. They've still put out monthly releases pretty consistently despite Spain getting smashed by plague and international shipping being a catastrophe and the cost of their main production material doubling or tripling.

    Not updating infinity? ITS 13 has been out little over a month, the new starter box has been out for about two months. Do some sectorials need a bit of love and attention, yes. There has always been a sectorial that needed attention it's a cycle, this isn't a new thing.
     
  11. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Also, while I did not support TAG Raid, the Kickstarter did bring new content to a lot of armies. When ARMY is updated, Arianda is getting a decent TAG and every vanilla is getting a disposable HI and good skirmisher. And I don't think any of the options are overpowered, but just provide different options.
     
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  12. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    No... no they’re not. Games Workshop is running a game with built in flaws from the 80’s. They consistently require you to buy the newest codex to keep your army relevant and they’re obscenely overpriced. The you go I go system they use is outdated and despite their claims of “bleeding edge” ideas I haven’t seen any. Their game needs a massive overhaul. They gave fantasy a new breath of life with Age of Sigmar and they need to do something similar soon for 40K. (Don’t get me wrong, I love the minis and backstory, I’ve been here since rogue trader).

    At least Corvus Belli give you the rules for free. The updates are relatively consistent and there isn’t an army I feel I can’t play (despite having to proxy it if I don’t have the minis).
     
  13. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. For me, that just killed the game.

    Every faction getting the same profile is more a downside for me. As someone else stated, it makes all faction play the same over time. It was always a plus imho that the Infinity faction where quite distinct in how they played and what profiles they had access to.

    That said, I'm still happy that we did not get 20 profiles, but only 5.
    I would have loved it btw, if CB had come out with an NA2 sectorial of mining oriented profiles where you can use your TAG Raid profiles in and even potentially release more for that sectorial.
    I don't want mining stuff in my asien themed factions/sectorials, it just does not fit in.
     
  14. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    Really? It got loads of new players into the fantasy scene in my area. I must confess a fondness for the last but one iteration of fantasy though. My high elves remain unbeaten. To each their own though, I can understand why AoS isn’t for some, it can get frustrating depending on what you’re playing.

    I will agree that all factions having access to the same profile does somewhat defeat the object but I think the various factions will remain distinct enough that they’ll still have their own flavour.

    As for an NA2 mining sectorial... that’d be sweet. I’d bet on that happening in future.
     
  15. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Let's hit up some points.

    Infinity still does more or less you go I go. AROs are cool, but certainly not much different than 2e 40ks Overwatch, or the same mechanic in a host of other games.

    Codex pricing sucks, but for the cost for minis is basically the same. One CB blister of one mini for $20 or a box of 10 40k minis for $60. Or one box of 6 CB minis for $60....yea. Pricing is the same per mini, and whether you like GWs aesthetic or not their sculpt quality is fantastic in most cases (still some old stuff floating around). I much preferred WHFB to AOS. I'm really looking forward to the Old World coming back.

    40k's biggest issues are not enough terrain to prevent first turn annihilation and some balance problems. The base rules themselves are fine.

    Infinity has all the same issues other than buying the rules, but isn't receiving a stream of rules updates. Also the QA on their books is god awful and I think the N4 core books remain one of my most regretted purchases.

    I love Infinity, but that doesn't mean I have to support CB's choices. They really need to put some focus on the game itself instead of just hawking side games and new sectorials who only exist to let them throw new models into the game.
     
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  16. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    The you go I go mechanic is completely different between infinity and 40k. I have never seen anyone tabled before their turn begins. I have seen order pools reduced but the game is still playable after an “alpha” strike. It depends on the mission you’re playing and your deployment. Not so in 40K.

    The pricing is similarly completely different. Not considering if I want to collect anything; In order to get into infinity and play the game I can buy a starter box and that’s all I may need. For 40k, if I want to play a game I have to spend far more to get a decent force which may become obsolete/far less effective depending on the codex. I also have to buy the rules and the codex for each force I want to play. These rules are then updated seemingly every few months which means I need to pay again to have a viable army.

    £11 for a blister or £9.90 on an independent store for a single mini that gives me the profile I need vs a box of 10 Orks for £18. Okay. That looks bad. Until you realise that those 10 Orks are only half or a third of a full squad so I’m paying £54 for a single full squad. That’s significantly more than any other wargame, let alone Infinity. (Hell for £60 on warlord I can get a decent army for bolt action).

    It’s an obscene price creep that’s gotten away with because of the tournament scene. New players can easily and relatively cheaply find their way into Infinity, not into 40K nor even into Age of Sigmar.

    GW have stated that they don’t sculpt anything anymore. It’s all done on cad. I will agree that some of the older minis stand the test of time and are still damn beautiful (lord kroak and imotekh the storm lord to name but two out of a legion of minis that would make this list) but some of the newer ones are abominations unto the sight of the Emperor. (Garran Crowe has hips that are out of alignment with his spine).

    I am sorry, but I must disagree on your statement of the rules. The base rules for 40k are not fine. They haven’t been fine since 3rd edition and need a serious overhaul. I was enjoying 8th Ed where the indexes basically made each army viable but it soon got out of hand once again. You have a skirmish game with flyers, tanks and titans included. It doesn’t know what it wants to be and hasn’t for years. Infinity has a ruleset that is one of the most complex yet tightest I’ve ever come across. There are issues but for the most part I find it unbelievably easy to rectify those issues based on what’s intended.

    The rules for each army and the games are also free. You can’t really complain about free stuff. If you’d paid for it then yes you could easily be upset that they aren’t updated as much as might be warranted. For rule clarification I’ve had no issue emailing the team and getting a response rather quickly.

    Getting back on topic...

    Side games exist to provide extra income. It’s a business after all. If they can throw some of the minis into infinity, why not? I have no issue with new profiles being added. If you do and this impacts your game, I’m sorry for that. You don’t need to include them, you can house rule out certain profiles unless you’re in tournament play. I do understand your concern as it appears that CB has lavished more attention on its side games of late rather than its flagship game.

    However.

    You don’t need to agree with Corvus Belli’s choices but you should understand that they can and will create other games that they can cross with their mainstream game. If you are understanding of Games Workshop doing this, of Warlord Games, wizards of the coast et al doing this then what Corvus Belli is doing should be no surprise and it shouldn’t worry you.

    The answer to this thread is simple: how many side games can Infinity survive? as many games as CB chooses to make. Infinity isn’t going anywhere.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Mostly rules takes that come off as if the game isn't being played.
     
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  18. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    As someone who still plays 2nd Ed 40k (got a game tomorrow in fact) that's not true. Overwatch costs you your movement, can only be activated on your turn and is sometimes -1 to hit, it's OP as hell however because it's all one way traffic, no face to face rolls, just "I shoot you while you're moving, time to die" ARO's in infinity are generally to slow people down, and every overwatch model in 2nd ed 40k is a TR bot with no opposed rolls that can split its shots, it's just death. Granted it's only once per turn but it doesn't need to be more.

    It's also absolutely a game where you can table your opponent before they get a turn, and using strategy cards often even before the first turn for either player and they get to do nothing about it. There are reasons people house rule no vortex grenades.

    ARO comparatively means you pretty much always get to do something about what your opponent is doing with some chance of success even if it's just dodging out of LOF of the HMG and that you can set up defensive positions and choke points from deployment. There are other games that give you options like this but they're seldom as good.
     
  19. freefall357

    freefall357 Active Member

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    I am with the OP to some extent. Making the games is great for their business, making them usable in N4 is fine, but make them a non-standard side option.
    Then again, I don't like Infinity40k with how bad firetrams have gotten, just wildcard city and ONE linetroop to make it a (linetroop name)-fireteam...riiiiight... and how OP characters are (BuT ThE PoiNts AdD UP RigHT...yeah, ignoring their usual FLAWLESS synergy with the skills and gear they have)
    Also, imposter Aleph Trojan Horse being an auto-include in Nomad lists....really....
    Yeah, I've got some rants bout it lately, but I am lucky that my locals also dislike named characters in game and we all started before firetrams we're a thing (and all are 40k refugees).
    Sorry, been on my mind lately and wanted to vent.
     
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  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The Infinity Fanbase isn't really that toxic. The discord is largely decent and the Facebook groups are pretty good.

    This forum is hilariously, laughable toxic and the only and best solution would be to permanently ban somewhere between 10 and 15 consistently toxic people. Just ban ban ban etc and then it'd be less of a shitheap in literally a few minutes work.
     
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