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How many side games can Infinity N4 survive?

Discussion in 'News' started by zapp, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    Firstly, I couldn’t quote you when I edited the message. I have idea why but the option wasn’t available in the editor.

    Secondly, the objection to my claim being mathematically impossible is false. I’ve demonstrated this. It’s not my fault if you cannot do basic maths. I’m not describing it again. It’s really easy to see. I also HAVE. Given you the numbers. I displayed them in my earlier posts.

    Thirdly, you are the one moving the goalposts. My original statement holds true. It’s not dishonest to state that you can learn infinity with a small number of minis. This has been done time and again by many players. You cannot do this with necromunda. You require many more minis to play.

    fourthly: Not clutching at any pearls here. Not being vague deliberately. I’ve stated my case and given you the numbers. I can’t do any more than that.

    fifthly: It IS abhorrent to steal someone’s IP by downloading their books for free. It’s theft.
    That you haven’t acknowledged this tells me all I need to know about your practices.

    Lastly, I’m done speaking about this with you. You are clearly intensely defensive over a game of toy soldiers. Before psychoticstorm gets involved and removes these messages I’m going to bid you adieu.

    Now move on.
     
  2. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    I’d love to get back to Infinity too.

    So. If the new year is bringing a lot of stuff for N4, is Infinity still in any danger of survival? I would posit no but this is just my opinion. Please discuss.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  3. Lucian

    Lucian Catgirl Nation

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    Oh. Oh. I'd like to throw a rock into GW too! Just like a certain individual above mentioned I was hooked by a promise of cheap boxes. Got a gang box (which was cheap, yeah) and Gangs of Underhive book, and a starter rulebook from some other guy. And it turned out there's no campain rules in that starter book, only in hardcover one! And all the other campain rules are cut into little pieces and spread throught all other books!
    Basic campain? Hardcover rulebook!
    What the hell is that stuff on the sprue and how much it costs? Gangs of Underhive!
    Need to know how corruprtion works? Book of ruin!
    How to work with authorities? Book of Judgement!
    What is badzones? Book of Peril!
    Gang got an update and you need to see new prices and new stuff? Gang Book!

    A campain outside the hivecity? Book of outcasts!

    And each one is like 50-ish bucks! Bloody hell, playing infinity for a few years really spoiled me!
     
  4. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    @Gwynbleidd

    You literally haven’t provided any numbers and you literally shifted the criteria of what an infinity army is (apparently that’s merely buying Operation X), which makes your statement nonsensical because you also literally admitted that the starting price can be done similarly.…

    add that to the fact that you insist on moving on, while hurling ad hominems and claim I’m “stealing” (despite the fact I bought all their books).
    This is a classic case of someone being angered because they got caught in a lie and have proven several times over they don’t know what there taking about…

    @Lucian
    Yes, their fragmented ruling of incompetent release cycles mixed with greed, can make buying into Necromunda a pyramid scheme.
     
    nazroth likes this.
  5. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    You literally stated that you could download the books from a compendium. This would not be a practice condoned by GW. It would be illegal.

    I in fact gave you the numbers for what it costs to get started. It’s a classic case of someone getting bent out of shape that a game they love costs more to play than a game they love less. I’m not angry at all. You’re the one who keeps bringing this up.
     
    #245 Gwynbleidd, Jan 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
  6. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 May his passage cleanse the world.

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    This discussion has killed any interest in Necromunda for me.
     
  7. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    For that I sincerely apologise. Please do give it a go, it’s a great game and the minis are lovely.
     
  8. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    I already explained the compendium... Why you wish to keep engaging in the pearl clutching faux outrage is beyond me.

    Ah... Okay this is starting to make a lot of sense now.
    You're doing this because you're projection. Someone earlier mentioned something about Necromunda and this made you butthurt (for some reason) and you decided to lie about it and how much more expensive it was than Infinity and now you're being defensive when caught in your lie, and have demonstrated multiple times that you know nothing of the game you comment on (you think Juves are on a seperate box and not the main and you think you need a codex when you, in fact, do not).
    Judging by how hard you are willing to ignore blatant flaws of for example the recent Siocast from Corvus Belli, I would say it's very likely you have a personal investment in Infinity, which makes you lie about other games (for reasons that escapes me).

    An 'Infinity army' can only mean one of 3 things:
    1. A collection of 10 models for a full combat group
    2. A collection of models making a list of 300 points, up to 15 models
    3. A sizeable collection of models of a faction
    None of those 3 things above are cheaper than any gangs in Necromunda in any way shape or form.

    Shifting goal posts to meaning "cost of starting a game" doesn't even help your case etiher, as that was never what was being discussed.
     
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  9. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    I say the same to you. You clearly have a stake in necromunda considering how you seem unable to move on from defending it. If you’d like I can display the vast quantity of Games Workshop miniatures or historical miniatures I possess to display how little a stake I have in Infinity. I don’t feel like I need to prove anything to you though so I won’t.

    You’re becoming obsessed. You’re even looking at my posts on siocast now, trying to find something to convince yourself and everyone else that what I’ve said is a lie. Your need to prove me wrong on a point I no longer need to prove nor wish to discuss with someone like yourself is laughable. This is sad. I’m going to just sit back and leave you to your rage. All the while living rent free inside your head… enjoy your evening mate.
     
  10. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I do not think this thread is about Necromunda though, while the initial discussion may had some merits and it was allowed, I think it has now veered way off topic and should be stopped.
     
  11. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Yeah, I was done proving my point anyway.

    The pathetic and fuming post by @Gwynbleidd being under the delusion that I somehow looked at his history when I just remembered something on top of my head is just baffling.


    Anyways, good night.
     
    #251 Zewrath, Jan 7, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2022
  12. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Personal attacks are not allowed, discuss the argument, do not attack the forum users.
     
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  13. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    @Gwynbleidd , @Zewrath , you really had a hot debates. That was interesting)
    To be honest, I feel like infinity is not cheaper to start, actually.
    But this is only an opinion of casual player. I am more about lore and all that things.

    I just can say, that both games are different for me.
    Necromunda feels more campaign oriented. There are interesting interactions . And it is very important for campaign organizer to make interesting missions and choose them. Fix it burning games. People should not be bored and feel themselves involved.
    (Ok, I am adding too much water in text. Sorry. In the end I promise to make short main thoughts. But I can give you a link, if you want.)

    So, I know a good example, when 10 people started campaign with only starter boxes. That was enough, and they got lots of fun. Plus they used only basic rule book. It was enough to buy one. And organizer of this discussed and explained rules before starting. I think, that is fair. Other things are like addons.

    To play more competitive and... sportive (I am not sure how to call it) game you should buy more, but that’s of course fine. Such fun should exist too =)

    Lots of new people was able to start only by buying one box. They played and got lots of fun.
    They also made battle reports (but they are on russian language, and no one thought about subtitles...)

    Infinity requires you to buy more expensive starter, and it is a little harder to get in. At my opinion. Rules are not simple. But CB are trying to make them easier like in Code One. This is a barrier of another kind.

    So yes, as for me, without talking about math and so on, Infinity feels a little difficult to start financial.
    And a different from necromunda main idea.
    There are something like aura around it like “the game for advanced players” if we talk about Infinity.
    And feels more oriented to play battles than campaigns with leveling your units in many games and so on.
    But may be [and I am sure about it] this moment depends on community.

    May be all of this sounds weird, and if so, sorry for that =)
    You are cool. More your debates, please)

    [And here is A SHORT VERSION]
    - at practice everything depends on community. Are they ready to play for fun with little armies or to play serious.
    - each game, Infinity and Necromunda, have different accents. And it feels different games.
    - Infinity feels more elite with it’s metal miniatures and more expensive. (But prices depends on region, I guess...)
    - this was a very chaotic opinion of a casual, that likes both games very very very much.
    - I hope CB would find an optimal way for us and themselves. Tag Raid wouldn’t kill infinity.
     
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  14. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    @Daireann

    Glad you enjoyed. It was an interesting discussion…

    I completely respect your point of view on the matter. It is possible indeed to have a difference of experience when buying in to either game. I’m glad you enjoy both!

    On the necromunda front, I’m currently kitbashing a Cawdor gang made entirely from sisters of battle and Cawdor bits. (A friend had the idea and it sounded fun).

    I don’t think Tag Raid will have a significant impact on Infinity either. It may slow down production of stuff for N4 somewhat especially later when tag raid needs to be made ready for shipping but I think that’s all.
     
  15. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

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    This has been a fun read. I have a slightly sour taste in my mouth coming back to Infinity N4 after a hiatus, and part of it is the influx of character models. I suspect it's a 'taste' thing, because my way into Infinity has always been 'like XCOM' with mostly generic troopers. As a preference, I don't like that the game is sliding towards a character heavy skew, where characters do all the interesting things. I enjoyed the ludonarrative experience of squads of trained soldiers engaging in strategic and tactical manouvers outwitting broadly equivelant foes, and not so fussed about individual characters with reams of backstory fluff and in-game gimmicks adding complexity.

    Profiles sliding over into the main game, balanced or otherwise, contributes towards this slide towards character focus. I get that there are probably sensible marketing and business decisions around this shift, but that doesn't mean it's for me.
     
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  16. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. For a long time, many suggestions in the past were to buy boxes of core troops etc, not often did you see suggestions to buy all the character models for your lists instead. It seems this is sliding the other way from what little I see.

    Almost begs adding another suggestion like Limited Insertion.... Limited Name Characters, or Limited Mercs, etc. Of course this can be done in private games to suit personal tastes, making for new challenges and getting more fun from their models.
     
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  17. Gwynbleidd

    Gwynbleidd Non asto coram malo

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    This is much my take on the issue, indeed the way in which you suggest dealing with limiting named characters or mercs is something we do in house when we play. It’s mostly a “no mercs” stance as it makes things easier for our player group.

    I can certainly understand the displeasure at the game becoming more character oriented as there are certain characters that are now a must have and this was once not the norm, as has been noted. I don’t think it’s likely to cause the death of the game but it will likely change how the game is viewed and played.

    I don’t mind the characters so much myself, they can be quite fun but I do agree that having named units doing everything isn’t as much fun as having all your units capable of doing the cool things.
     
    infyrana likes this.
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    At least with TAG Raid, there's no character types, before Aristea and Defiance were all about characters and those that played Infinity wanted those characters in their game and CB wanted to sell them. Though I wish they had done with the Triphammer and Prospector, like they did with the Beast Hunter and given each faction a slightly tweaked version. So a little better.
     
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  19. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

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    Aristeia! is a goddamn great game. Defiance is a cool crawler set in the infinity world, Infinity rpg is the biggest boost to game lore in years, Tagraid is a weird step brother that looks quite fun in a beer + pretzels kinda way (and is definitely closest to a "miss" imo). All of them added new fluff to the game, new models to run, proxy or kitbash; all of them are not only distinctly in the Infinity universe but also at the same scale, from the same era, etc.

    Honestly, CB are a (great) games company; the idea they're only 'allowed' to work on a sigle game is a bit silly. My only complaint about all these dastardly side games is when they're not bloody available after the KS campaign!
     
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  20. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the RPG, because I have yet to play a campaign (going to fix that pretty soon), but when it comes to Defiance... yes, it is fun and it has many good ideas. But the rules definetly need a lot of fixing and polishing.
     
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