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How happy are you with the Uprising book?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    @Vakarian : I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'd like to know, though.

    That's my big complaint. The background is just not up to the standard of any of the previous books. Not N1, not N2, not Human Sphere (N2), not Paradiso, not N3, not HSN3.

    The various factions are not acting in ways that benefit them, which was rather characteristic of earlier fluff. Heck, Outrage had the least-obvious reason for Yu Jing to be trying to reveal a PanO black op (scoring points in O12 meetings), and it was still obvious. The YJ Ambassador said exactly why they wanted the info!
    • I can see Haqq, being the most explicitly humanist and humanitarian, raising a protest at the actions of the Yu Jing forces. I can't see the Yu Jing forces doing those actions in the first place. At least not as a matter of policy.
    • I can see PanO taking some actions to shit on Yu Jing, it's what you do to your nearest competitor among nations. I can't see PanO taking actions that would risk thermonuclear war (or dinosaur-killer kinetic strikes). And shooting down YJ aircraft over YJ territory, plus bombing YJ forces on same YJ territory, is right up there for starting a much bigger war. Heck, the US is very careful to tell the Russians where our planes will be flying over Syria, to make sure that we don't accidentally (or "accidentally") shoot at each other.
    • I can't see the Nomads really taking part in this, other than some nasty comments about Yu Jing and JSA creating "new navigation hazards" (combat debris) in space. I can't see the Nomads doing much else. Getting back at YJ for blowing up a Nomad torpedo boat? There's money for that. Did you know that the Israelis blew the crap out of a US ship in 1967? "Mistaken Identity" they said. "Fog of War" they said. They paid a lot of money for that (~$65mil in 2017 dollars all told). Those killed got an amount roughly equal to the Serviceman's Group Life Insurance payout, those wounded got less. The US eventually got paid for damages to the ship. But the Israelis never admitted wrongdoing.
    • Ariadna did act in a way that was in their own interest, so why didn't everyone else?!?
    There were sections for the various mercenary groups, describing how they got pulled into the Uprising. There weren't any for the major powers, and I think the book would have been much better for it.


    I'm actually OK about the Dire Foes. It's barely a retcon, since I don't remember any of the old info being changed, CB just added info as to how those ops affected the Uprising.




    I've already stated how I think that the presentation in this book is not up to the earlier CB standard. I really hope this isn't the new standard.

    The Multi Marksman Rifle is there because the Daiyokai carries one. But it is a bit odd that none of the other rules that have been added (Fatality, Full Auto, and I'm sure there are a couple others I'm forgetting) were included here. It's possible that this was due to a page count issue, hardbound books have page counts in multiples of 16, 8 sheets stitched together (IIRC called 'signatures'). But it's still odd.

    I would honestly like more scenarios. I'm hoping that the Paradiso N3 book gets it's scenarios looked at, some of those were really wonky. Really, really wonky.

    I'd also like a generic "how to set up a campaign" book, with lots of scenarios to use.
     
  2. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer scenarios and campaign rules, too. I fear we won't get them. For some reason they put scenarios in the battle boxes, so I guess they don't want to put them into the book. Which is a shame, because it would be an incentive to buy a book. The incentive to buy a battle box is obviously to get the models. As I said, we have the BoW campaigns, so I am not sure whether CB wants to update their old campaign system which was not so hot anyway imho. CB does not seem to want us to forget about the spec ops, otherwise they wouldn't have released the USA one. This spec ops system is in dire need for an overhaul. I can't see CB rewriting the Paradiso book with all those scenarios. Yes, they were super wonky.

    The Paradiso book background was more interesting, it had more of a sci-fi novel feel to it. I think the Uprising story simply did not lend much material for that. Having the powers act in a realistic way with the result of the conflict being short lived and Japan getting their independence would probably have been difficult.

    Do you guys think there will be a book in the near future introducing the five new sectorials? I thought the Kazaks would come out in time for the Dawn campaign, but that is obviously not going to happen if the campaign starts next month or so.
     
    #102 prophet of doom, May 20, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be very surprised if the book releasing the new sectorials (which should be Paradiso N3) is available before GenCon, and I'd honestly not expect it before Christmas.
     
  4. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I would be surprised if there was another book this year! The Tunguska starter is coming soon, so we might see a new way of CB introducing new armies. The Druze arrived all of a sudden, we could play new JSA before the book came out, so maybe from now on sectorials will be introduced without the help of a book. Battle boxes could just provide the background for new units just like in the JSA and USAriadna box.
     
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly. Army updated right before Adepticon, and there were a few books and army packs available at Adepticon.
     
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  6. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    Um @Section9 I think my account got hacked or something. Reset my password and sorry to say I don't think I can add any more information about the Korean War being "singular" =O

    Edited to add: because I'm in the conversation now, I agree that the Korean War is not a good analogy to Uprising. The US and China openly fought each other, but China was not yet a nuclear power. The Russian pilots flying MiGs for the North Koreans, though - those guys were a pretty well-kept secret because the Russians didn't want open war with the US and the US didn't want to call the Russians on it by showing that they knew the Russians were doing it.

    The closest example I can think of close to Uprising is the recent spat between the Turks and the Russians in Syria. That's not even great but the Turks shooting down a Russian fighter over Syrian airspace ended up getting brushed aside by the Russians because the Russians wanted to try and keep peeling the Turks away from US influence.

    Pan O's actions in Uprising are pretty close to a declaration of war, but then again Yu Jing may not have felt ready for open war with Pan O while also fighting on Paradiso, and Pan O might have relied on that to bluff Yu Jing into a really bad position. I wish the fluff had been a little more forthcoming on that point, way too much is left up to the reader's assumption.
     
    #106 Vakarian, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yeah, the fact that Yu Jing doesn't say anything like "Yo we're fighting to defend humanity on Paradiso what gives guys" is somewhat telling. I don't think it's "left up to the reader's assumption," but rather we're supposed to see Yu Jing as so morally unworthy that they better keep fighting on Paradiso *and allow the rest of the Sphere to enable land to be stolen from them.* If Yu Jing were to withdraw forces from Paradiso, you could bet the story would be "selfish Yu Jing endangers the rest of the Sphere to enable its own jackbooted oppression and Hitleresque territorial ambitions."
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Huh. Well, was going to say that when we talk about the Korean War, singular, we're talking 1950-53.

    I'm well aware that the Koreans have had either the Chinese or the Japanese march from one end of that peninsula to the other every 200 years or so, for roughly the last 1000 years.
     
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  9. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    Yea, it looks like we're mostly talking about the relevance of the 1950-53 war vice Uprising, although I haven't read the whole thread - just what was around those odd posts.

    The rest of Korea's history is fascinating and depressing at the same time; the country has in a lot of ways been shaped by constant conquering by other Asian powers.

    @Hecaton what surprised me is that this does not gain Yu Jing any support from O-12 to make PanO knock it off. If the O-12 actually has the teeth the fluff says it is supposed to have, instead of being a retread of the UN, they should have been in the middle of this immediately to shut the whole thing down and get everybody back to focusing on Paradiso. This is another part of the fluff from Uprising that I'm less than pleased with, along with most of @Section9's complaints about Yu Jing's competency, which are very valid.
     
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  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Vakarian That is, if O-12 *wants* PanO to knock off their attack on Yu Jing. The way it's written it seems like O-12 wants to punish Yu Jing for being so evil, not maintain the stability of the sphere. People were talking like yeah, O-12 has teeth, and that's why Yu Jing can't fight back against PanO, as O-12 will kick their teeth in (and probably ban them from circular access) if they do. It's not acknowledged that the front on Paradiso needs supporting - instead Yu Jing is cast as the villain when JSA troops rebel in the middle of a warzone.

    As I mentioned, the story is written at the lowest level of characterization - Yu Jing is the villain, so anything they do, even defending themselves, must be evil and wrong. JSA are the heroes, so anything they do, even rebel in the middle of a warzone facing an existential threat or use civilians as human shields, must be right. It's a childlike outlook.
     
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  11. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    @Hecaton I don't entirely disagree.

    That explanation makes the story as a whole make even less sense - the O-12 should want to be placating Yu Jing and ensuring they keep their forces engaged against the CA, rather than want to "punish" them for being "bad." In that sense, the story misses some of the larger geopolitical (ok, interstellar-political or whatever we want to call it) implications of the secession, or just decided to ignore them.

    The mid-level stuff about how PanO's intervention saved the JSA is the part that made the most sense, and even makes sense (to PanO) on a larger scale. It just doesn't quite work once you're a step above PanO's perspective.
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Vakarian Yeah. I'm not surprised at PanO wanting to kneecap Yu Jing. What I *am* surprised by is everyone else in the Sphere bending over backwards to help them.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to point out that that right there is one of the few things in the modern US military law that is punishable by death in peacetime. The formal legalese is "sedition," as the Uprising was intended to overthrow the Yu Jing civil government and replace it with the Japanese civil government. Additionally, failing to do everything possible to suppress or report the sedition is also a death penalty item.

    Being in a Combat Zone adds "misbehavior before the enemy" (through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangering the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property) to the charge sheet which is another of the rare articles punishable by death. 14 of 60 punitive articles (crimes) carry the death penalty, but only 10 of them (Mutiny or Sedition, Misbehavior Before the Enemy, Subordinate Compelling Surrender, Improper Use of Countersign, Forcing a Safeguard**, Aiding the Enemy, Espionage, Improper Hazarding of a Vessel, Murder, and Rape) carry the death penalty at all times. The other 4 articles (Desertion, Assaulting or willfully disobeying a superior officer, spying, and Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout) only carry the death penalty in time of war. If you remember Bowe Berghdahl, his desertion (walking off post without intent to return) did not carry the death penalty because US Congress did not declare war on AQ or the Taliban. But his misbehavior before the enemy carries the death penalty at all times. I believe that there was a plea bargain made to make sure Berghdahl didn't get the death penalty.

    Yes, military law is harsh. It has to be, because the military is the last argument of the government. Troops are held to a much higher standard than civilians.

    ** deals with "assets important to national security", the kind that make a great big boom and a mushroom cloud.
     
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  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Tbh US military law is harsh even by western standards. The rest of the five eyes effectively did away with death penalties for military crimes after the First World War.

    But yes. The Japanese troops rebelling on Paradise is bad. But the campaigning there is in a lull: and there's a long tradition of troops from oppressed nations mutinying (see Scottish troops behaviour during the 18th and 19th centuries).
     
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  15. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    I think the point is that YJ would be totally allowed to put them down by force - it was a fight to the death and both sides knew it.
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yu Jing isn't allowed this by the rest of the Sphere, though. Defending themselves from sedition and rebellion, as well as against outside attack, is treated as a crime.
     
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  17. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Personally I wonder what is Old Man's agenda in the Uprising. Hassassins were working in favour of the Japanese, but what does Haqqislam gain in it?

    Sure, humanism and all, but for the same humanistic goals they could've supported an ICRC missions that actually would have the backing in international law to enter the contested areas and provide support to civillian population, and gain much more goodwill toward the Haqqislam in general.

    Instead, Hassassins work against Yu Jing, the second big power of the Sphere - and in hand with PanOceania, the first big power.
    There's no possibility the Old Man of the Mountain is ignorant to the old truth the classics of political science and strategy have pyut down long ago: never ally with the strong against the weak, for the strong don't really need your help, and once they have dealt with the weaker opponent, there will be onthing to stop them from coming after you.
    But if you ally with the weak, you can together overpower the stronger opponent.

    It would make sense for Haqq to ally with the YJ agaisnt PanO for that reason. Trim the Hyperpower into a somewhat more manageable size. Then, should the YJ grow too bold and powerful, make sure PanO gets helped and trim down the YJ.

    Such checks and balances are, after all, the reason behind Haqq-Nomad cooperation since the beginning of it: together they can work to outweight a bigger nation. This is also the reason beyond their support toward Ariadna, another "weak" state of the Sphere.
     
  18. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there were any tech-related deals involved... Like, I don't know, a certain armour design? Daidjinn Dengekitai, anyone?
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Xeurian I don't. It's looking like everyone sided with JSA because they weren't going to have any faction besides Yu Jing be cast in a negative moral light, and allying with the State-Empire is supposed to be an unconscionable act in this context.
     
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  20. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    Ariadna was not pro-JSA at any point in the conflict.
     
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