I agree with @Mahtamori on this. The "Religious" rule is that you, by nature/instinct DO NOT seek cover after your armor bounces a hit. Which is the exact opposite of what military training does. The "Religious" rule has little to nothing to do with any level of faith of the trooper. After all, Shaolin are Buddhist monks, and aren't Religious by rules.
I think it is something of a joke: ARO is written as ORA in Spanish, and "ORA" means "Pray" (imperative, incidentally: you, pray). So "religious troops" are those who "pray", because they are "ARO troops" XD
The test runs of the Steel Wall were over Japan. Which was Yu Jing territory at the time. I'm going to say this again: PanO was bombing YJ territory and shooting down YJ combat aircraft, without any kind of O12 approval. 20 days before O12 approval, in fact. What do you think the results would be if the US started bombing the Russian base in Crimea? Bombing the airbases that launched the attacks is probably the minimum response we'd see, and I'd be very surprised if the US didn't get a visit from Russian bombers.
Ok, my thread has gone a bit off-topic. I can't be bothered to read through everything that lead to this interesting legal debate, but I guess the beginning of this debate is the question whether the background presented in the Uprising book is good or realistic. I think it is not realistic, but is probably good enough for a medium like a wargame. No, PanO would probably not have enough interest in the matter to risk a major war by bombing YJ territory. No, YJ would probably not be so kind to stop the brutal suppression of the uprising after a formal complaint that O-12 can agree on after six months. I am not so sure whether we would want to have it realistic: Ongoing war with all its atrocities between YJ and the JSA. With the other factions doing nothing to avoid nuclear war. Nah, there would be some Infinity-like spec ops operations somehow. Still, at the end of the day, it is not really the best background stories they could have come up with. And the reasoning for putting in the Dire Foes material is pretty artificial.
I mean, obviously it would rachet up tensions heavily, but during the Korean war US bombers hit targets in mainland china, and there was still some restraint shown. History has indicated that nations are leery to go into full Nuclear war at first provocation, and instead are willing to -provided the interference is small enough- respond only in kind, likely by targeting Pan-O aircraft and ships. Problem is that Pan-O has much larger military presence in the Sol system by fluff, where if they'd tried it in the YJ home system, it would've been a slaughter of whatever they sent. Do I think it is a stretch, yes, but not a total break of reality. I mean, reading history I could find tons of 'No way that actually happened' that we have proof of, so I grant them some amount of slack.
Eh.... there's a bit of a difference between a bomb hitting the wrong side of the border to the nation you're actually at war in, and as such showing restraint due to accidents. I mean, even in the Korean wars the Russian pilots pretended to be Chinese in order to not escalate it on more fronts and while the US intelligence caught on they also showed restraint so as not to open another front in Europe. We're still talking US setting up no-fly zones over St. Petersburg level of intervention by Pan-O here, not a few stray bombing runs. I can't think of a single nuclear-capable nation that wouldn't be likely to respond with nukes to that level of aggression (considering Pan-O had significant military advantage), and some of them (such as Russia) doesn't even have a strike first policy with regards to Nukes
I think a better name would be Stubborn or Fanatici. The Monks are a bit weird with extremely impetuous. You'd think they would show a bit more discipline.
have you ever seen that picture of the monk that light himself on fire? It's kind of like that - YJ forces them to fight so they fight with reckless abandon, with the intent to kill themselves.
You mean the one that was protesting Tibet's occupation by China? I'd say offtopic there, but I agree it's a dick move from China. Making Impetuous troops that will never link Religious, and who has smoke grenades and is cheap as dirt would mean giving it Courage, to all effects, since you won't want to hide it 90% of the time.
I was just pointing out that Monks will often go to extremes to prove a point - whether it be setting themselves on fire or recklessly running into a gun fight. that kind of stuff requires determination. Simply opting to fail your guts and hide would be a little counter intuitive to the idea that they want to die
During the Korean War the PRC were a belligerent. The UN forces and the Chinese were already at war. That puts bombs falling in the PRC in a completely different context, which actually contradicts the point you are making. Additionally, the PRC was not yet a nuclear power during the Korean War which alters the analogy further.
The way I see it, Interplanetary Relations are much bigger than International ones. PanOceania are not the equivalent of USA and China, but Gigantic Corporate Monstruosities (because, make no mistake, Yu Jing is not just Military Might). When it's all said and done, the Japanese Prefectures that Seceded are a speck in the Grand Scheme of things. Sure, Pride is a powerful motivator, until you factor in Profit. If a War is not Profitable in some way, it will not be fought. Japan's Secesion was Profitable to PanO; but not to Yu Jing. So PanO brought weapons and aid to Japan, in order to hit Yu Jing's Economical Standing. Despite what we read, Yu Jing did not rise to the bait. Yes, there were bloody confrontations (which is what you usually expect in these type of stories); but Yu Jing didn't make Nomad Enemies, or declared war to Haqqislam, it didn't even appeared concerned about PanO's intervention. Because in Economic Terms, this was just a hiccup for the State-Empire. At least that's what I got from the whole thing, and why you really don't see much from Yu Jing's side. I'm sure everything is business as usual in the State-Empire, with the slight change that the Japanese are now either no longer Citizens or a new Low in the Yu Jing Society. Now, what intrigues me is how will the Next Campaign be focused.
@Danger Rose Your shift or capslock key appears to be broken. Nah, I think it's written to show this as a major blow to Yu Jing. People only started saying that it was insignificant when critics brought up the fact that the fluff seems to imply that PanO was now going to be the undisputed major power of the Sphere compared to a weakened Yu Jing. Assessments of the Japanese secession as harmless appear to be motivated by winning the meta argument (i.e. telling Yu Jing fans that their faction hasn't been reduced to a villainous, incompetent caricature) rather than anything that appears in the text.
Heheh, it's called trying to post using the mobile and getting interrupted every seven words. I tend to capitalize words when I'm in a hurry, for some reason. And I stopped following reactions about Uprising even before the Thread Blocks. What I wrote was my honest take on what I got from the book, now that I finally read it all; complimented with my understanding of the Background of Infinity. If others came to the same conclusion for diferent reasons, then it's a happy coincidence.
I agree with the sentiment, Danger Rose. This thread is not about discussing for the Nth time how we feel about the uprising and the portrayal of YJ. It is about how happy we are with the book. The main part of the book is obviously background, so the question is just how good are the ideas and how well are they presented. I think the presentation was up to the usual CB standard, but that's it. It was centred on background, because profiles are now to be found online for practical reasons. Background in the books, profiles and rules online. Not even the new skills are found in this publication. I still have to go online to find out what Fatality and Full Auto does. In this regard, I wonder what the next book is going to be like. Obviously, CB is not doing campaign scenarios like in the Paradiso book anymore. We got the Dire Foes, partly the ITS and the yearly BoW campaign for this. I understand that, one has to follow the paths decided on and not attempt to go several ways at the same time. So what will we get? A new story, the descriptions of a few new units that fit into the new sectorials and a page telling us we should look up the stats of those units online? A disappointing new direction for me. There was even little reason to put in the availabilities of the new sectorials as we can read them online, too. And why we get the rules for a multi marksman rifle is everybody's guess.
