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How do you spec-obs in Vanilla

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Arkhos94, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Spitfire_TheCat

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    To be honest, I am more than somewhat pissed by the new SpecOps-Options. Seems like other factions are far better at whining about how unfair they are treated. And this is what happens then.

    PanO and Aleph get ODD, although it's a Nomads-Invention, what do Nomads get? Automedikit. Wow, extremely usefull on a PH10-Troop. Okay, I can raise PH easily then I get one troop with no ability other than resurrection.

    PanO get's a Jammer as well, which seems pretty usefull on a SpecOp because it's a cheap troop. Nomads gets an Akrylat-Kanone. Looks usefull on a cheap troop, but everyone gets the ABH which is cheap and has the Akrylat-Kanone as well. So again ... nothing.

    Nomads gets MetaChemistry L1. Hmm, why should I take this (other than for funsies) when I can get a Morlock for 6 points? One of Nomads-Strengths is board control, so why don't we get Infiltration? Like Ariadna gets FD2?

    Looks like everyone gets something along it's strength like:
    • Pano gets Feuerbach, Drop-Bears, Albedo, E-Mitter, Jammer, ODD, Counterintelligence (are these PanO-Strengths? Or is this what they always wanted and whined about?)
    • Ariadna ... Grenade, ADHL, E/Mauler, T2 Rifle, Molotok, AP HMG, FD L2, Airborne Infiltration
    • Haqq ... viral all the way, Jammer, I-Kohl ...
    Well, not everyone:
    Nomads get ... Chaincolt, Grenade, Cybermine, Meta Chemistry L1, Repeater and Automedikit ...
    (to be honest, YuJing faired not better, but that doesn't help me much)

    Na, for me this looks like we should complain much more often, how bad our profiles are. No matter if true or not. Just like the MO-whining thread on the PanO-Sub-Forum.

    Every week we should start another whining thread .
    • Like we only have one BS 14 Infantry-Troop in the whole army
    • Like not even Soldiers of Fortune help in that regard, because although there are tons of swiss-army-knife-profiles with the Soldiers of Fortune, there is not a single BS-15-Monster-Merc available.
    • Like we have one (okay, with Perseus now two) NWI-Troops in the whole army and this is the same troop as above with BS 14
    • Like altough we have fast specialists, we don't have a fast 2W-Specialist like the Montesa
    • Like although we invented ODD, Aleph has more ODD than we have.
    So enough of a rant ...
     
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  2. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    At least we kept CoC, which is a skill Nomads are missing totally and the Brawler did get it f.e.
    Although we lost the nice Holoprojector to go with it. :/
     
  3. SpectralOwl

    SpectralOwl White-Faced Invincible

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    I don't know, I'd really like that Heavy Flamethrower in my PanO. Cybermines and the Repeater are excellent too, allowing a decent Hacking offensive without the risk of being gibbed by Hidden Deployed Killer Hackers. At the moment for a Nomad Vanilla Spec-Op I'm eyeing a Moderator with NWI and Heavy Flamethrower plus D-Charges. Seems like a good option to burn through midfield AROs with Doctor backup, as well as providing a lethal follow-up to Electric Pulse when someone tries to CC them.
     
  4. Spitfire_TheCat

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    I haven't used Cybermines a single time and Repeater in a SpecOp only _looks_ usefull. It has no Infiltration (Moran) and is not fast (Transductor) so, why should I take this? A lethal Moderator with NWI and only a Template weapon? And Electric Pulse for CC? I know when I see sarcasm.
    With that logic, the humble Jaguar with Chain Rifle, Dogged and MA L2 for 10 points must be the solution for everything.

    But hey, I just wanted to get rid of my rant, because it's annoying me so much that now I'm not even in the mood for painting anymore.
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, there's nothing exciting. COC + Minelayer + ? Is probably the most interesting, but that's because it opens up Active LT list building choices.

    Even the Hacker options are meh: unless you're really strapped for points or SWC, we have Interventors and Spec Ops only get a HD.

    BS13 + Red Fury + Mimmetism Securitate will make solid replacements for the HMG in a Securitate link.

    Doc + Engineer + Free Agent + WIP is a solidly boring choice. Give it a couple of Zondbots and sit it in the second order group. Particularly useful in CJC if your Daktari is tied up in a Fireteam.

    Metachemistry is the only 'ooh, interesting' choice. But there's nothing that really makes you want to pair with it.

    Where are the EMitters or EMaulers? The Crazy Koalas? The KHD or HD+? Literally the only quintessential 'Nomad' equipment is Metachemistry and Multiterrain.

    Multiterrain would be interesting at 1pt, but at 2 it's overpriced.
     
    #45 inane.imp, Apr 27, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Repeater on a Spec Ops is solid with Minelayer as an area denial option vs LX, Meteors, Garuda and any AD Hackers. I'd seriously consider it on a COC cheerleader.

    The other option is Repeater + Hacker Securitate for built in hacking defence.

    It's not bad for any situation where you have 2 spare points: same reason that the Repeater Securitate is considered a nice to have in Securitate links. A FD1 + Minelayer + Repeater Securitate is a solid start to a area control Spec Ops: make it a Dr and it synergises well with an Intruder.
     
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  7. Spitfire_TheCat

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    Until now most of the time I used the SpecOp with Holo1, Doctor, Minelayer and maybe a WIP Boost. Together with some Zondbots it worked well for area denial and with my Intruder. I never needed a repeater on the SpecOp. Most AD-Troopers aren't hackable anyway.

    This setup is, except for Holo1, still feasible, but (whining-mode on, so that we maybe get something cool in the future) with some of the other options, the SpecOp could have been much more interesting.

    Jammer on a SpecOp is super interesting. 4 Points. Add FD1 or ODD and this one is really annoying.
    Feuerbach, for 0 SWC and around 10 points, you get BS 12 Feuerbach with ODD. Or even higher BS without ODD

    Like you said, some Crazy Koalas would have been a nice idea.

    But like it is now, it's just the same boring Doctor-SpecOp

    Stinks.
     
  8. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I feel like not much has changed... I'll be running MSR/Doctor/Hacker. That seems to be the best return on investment.

    Metachemistry seems to be fairly priced, but can't you just buy a Morlock with the points you saved on your sniper rifle?
     
  9. SpectralOwl

    SpectralOwl White-Faced Invincible

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    The design is probably held back by the fact that most of what makes Nomads strong is designed for solo units, and Spec-Ops is thus far restricted to Core-Linkable Light and Medium Infantry. It also seems like nobody got Infiltration or full marker states for this reason. I'll pay you the E/Maulers, those are all over Nomad skirmishers and I think the only reason they didn't make an appearance is that they conflict too much with the role of the more unique Cybermines.

    You might laugh, but that Electric Pulse has a better shot of shutting down CC heavyweights than a knife by a long shot, since it doesn't get penalized by Surprise or MA3 and doesn't give a save. I wasn't being sarcastic. A well-placed flamethrower that can't be easily bypassed is a threat to anything in Infinity due to Fire ammo, and thanks to Moderator Shock Immunity it won't go down in one shot unless Viral is used. In the reactive turn and in a crowded board space, a Moderator with that setup is about as threatening as an ALEPH Yadu, and in the active turn it has the Heavy Infantry perk of being able to effectively ignore one ARO to complete an important task. It mightn't work for you, but it seems fantastic to me. Also, since when was the Jaguar not great? Back one up with a decent active-turn gunner to clear long lanes and they're perfectly capable of dismantling links or securing zones by themselves if you're not afraid to lose them.
     
  10. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    HD+ for Nomads would make a lot of sense to me. It's on way more units then it used to be and would give nomads the option not to go to the Interventor by default too.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    @SpectralOwl

    Honestly Wildcats instead of Algs as the source of Spec Ops in CJC would have been baller.

    FD1+Bravery, BS13, Mimmetism, +3pts spare. It'd have fit in as a peer to Muyibs.

    Morlocks as the source in Bakunin offers another unique take. Particularly if they become linkable (again) in the Bakunin update.

    Then it's mainly a pricing thing. Both Cybermines and Multiterrain are overcosted. At 1pt they'd be interesting but at 3 and 2... Yeah, nah. 6pts for a Metachem+Multiterrain Securitate seems about right.

    This approach would have been replicatable: Bolts + Fusi + Regulars for PanO.
    Muyibs + Hafza + Ghulam for Haqq (hang on...)
    Thorakites and Deva for Aleph
    Grunts + Vols + Frontoviks for Ariadna
    Zuyong* + Celestial Guard + Zanshi for YJ (make ZY start at -6pts or something for a degree of balance)
    Nexus + Vanguard + Nox for CA (they're all fairly solid, Vanguard is the weakest choice but isn't easily swapped, maybe Yaogat?)
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Only issue is that it's give CJC White Noise in Spec Ops. But given literally the only way Nomads can get CoC is on a Spec Ops then White Noise in CJC seems less out of character.
     
  13. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Man, I'd be pumped about Morlock spec-ops. I don't know if it would be better or worse, but I don't care.
     
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  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yup. That's the point: cool and interesting not necessarily optimal.
     
  15. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    For me in vanilla I can't see past a securitate spec ops with CoC, minelayer and chain colt. DTW, decent BS with his rifle for late game and allows Rambo Lt tactics
     
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  16. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    MODERATORS (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (CH: Mimetism, Repeater) Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 10)

    0 SWC | 10 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This will be my Spec-Ops of choice when playing a List based on Moderators.Mimetism is good against anyone without MSVs and if there's anyone sporting an MSV I'll be able to hide my Mods in White Noise ( which obviously comes from the Rev. Custodier).
     
  17. Gunmage

    Gunmage Well-Known Member

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    Technically, Aleph only has more ODD if you count all the special snowflake named characters. Otherwise, it's only Myrmidons - one unit. We have two, and are tied with PanO, Japan and CA for most ODD units. The only problem is that our ODD carriers are MI, and MI is generally lackluster compared to anything else.

    As for specops - for me, it's either extremely obvious CoC or something like this:
    Nomads
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    SECURITATE (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:15, Doctor, Engineer, Minelayer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 14)

    0 SWC | 14 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    It would be especially good in Tunguska...
     
  18. Spitfire_TheCat

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    Like always, Nomads are doing it completely wrong. While PanO is whining, how bad MO is now (it isn't, I played against it, it's extremely flexible and far from bad) you are telling me 'No, it's not that bad, we have Moiras and Mary, while Aleph only has Myrmidons with ODD. '

    That's completely wrong. This way it will only get worse.

    The right way is:
    Aleph has NINE unique units with ODD while we have SIX. And on Aleph's side there are the combat monsters like Achilles and almost all of them have NWI, we have Moiras.

    And yes, SpecOps are still usable, but we have the same options as before while PanO (others as well, but the Feuerbach-ODD-SpecOp is too obvious) has strong new options.

    So while for PanO the SpecOp already was more usefull before (compared to Nomads because they only have low WIP Doc's and Engineers) it now is even more usefull for them. Means, another disadvantage for us.

    Obviously without whining you don't get anything. I don't like it that way, but that's the way it works.
     
  19. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    [​IMG]

    Dafuq did I just read?
     
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  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    An attempt to turn the Nomad forums into the PanO ones.

    He's doing it wrong though, really he should start a 'Bolts Grenzers are trash' thread.
     
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