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How do you beat a Veteran Kazak AP HMG Core in the reactive turn?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by BarbeChenue, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Well, a lot of answers say the same. I'am really agree with "In ARO you don't kill things, only delay it". It is the harder true. Against this kind of fireteams is hard to place someone doing ARO and don's see it dead in one or two orders, at much.

    So, what can we do as Panoplayers. From a Sectorial like Varuna or Acontecimento the answer is easy, another team link with mimetism and visor. So, at least you will have a better confronted roll. But in Vainilla the options are "less secure".

    If the table have some chances to place a shooter like a nisse FFM almost in your corner you should be capable of shoot in FFM range and the Vet will be out of the HMGs range, so, the nisse make one single shot to 13, but the Vet impacts the nisse 13+3 for Fireteam -3 cover -3mimetism -3distance, so one 13 against 5 to 7s, not so bad. Same apply to the hexa snipper, return the fire worse than the nisse, only to 9, but the Vet if not in range go to 4, 16-12=4. Probably a waste of orders. Better than the hexa will be a Swiss Guard with ML.

    But if you don't have any place to put a shooter in "optimal conditions" then go to the passive solutions. Heavy Flame thrower, Auxilias and Peacemaker are your friends. Mines too. So put your head dow, making the hmg usesless and try to put down the link in your active turn.

    Best regards.
     
  2. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    You can even use one of these two menaces...

    Squalo HGL
    Is it fun? Not at all, but if you are unable to play otherwise... Start to lob grenades on the Fireteam at BS 9 (within 32"). As soon as someone dies or ducks, proceed to annihilate the rest.

    Cutter
    Move it. Does he Discover? Kill him. Does he wait? Move again in direction of THE REST of his models. Proceed to annihilate the army.
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Varuna is excellent at slowing down a low Order count list.

    In between moving and killing a Warcor, 2 Fugazi and 3 Helot LRLs not a single Rambo (Link) in the game has enough Orders to gut your DZ afterwards. That is if they don't get crit by a Flashpulse or LRL.
    Just deploy the cheap roadblocks in aggressive positions. Keep the Kamau Sniper as your Reserve Piece and deploy him Prone if you can't outrange the Link with his MSR.
     
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  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Hence the recommendation to use HD'd units, as your opponent is more likely to activate them both if he doesn't know for sure that there is a TO enemy, or where exactly it is.
     
  5. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    not really Reactive Turn options though
     
  6. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    I thought it was largely understood that you DO NOT want to be targeted by that thing...
     
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  7. yoink101

    yoink101 Chandra SpecOps Complaint Department

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    I try to use my fugazi as my first line of defense in NCA and ASA and my helots and fugazi in VIRD.

    Helots because they have light rocket launchers. They almost always die, but my opponent usually has to waste orders maneuvering because they are worried about a template hitting their Fireteam or discovering. Plus, if I get a lucky roll, fire simply solves problems by burning them away.

    Fugazi though are my favorite. I always put them in my second combat group expecting that their orders are forfeit if I activate second and I keep an engineer and palbots handy when I can so that my opponent will spend orders removing the fugazi from the table. Flash pulse on these 8 point drones is amazing. If you really want to go for it, getting an EVO hacker to increase their burst is awesome.

    Usually my fugazi die as my opponent crosses the table. This is fine because my opponent has spent orders delaying an advance towards objectives or my valuable/active pieces. Occasionally, I get a lucky roll. Do you know what happens when you crit that linked vet Kazak? He can fuck off for the rest of the turn. That’s what.

    Don’t rely the crit. Love it when it happens. Usually my fugazi and helots can eat up an extra 5-7 orders in maneuvering, recovering, or shooting. All of which are great for me.
     
  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Linked Kamau or Bagh Mari MSR?

    Probably overlapping that with Helots/Zulus/Nagas/Minelayers/Fugazi to punish/hinder the Kazaks ability to close with the MSR
     
  9. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    Right, a sample size of one. The Kamau MSV2 Multisnipe, in a 5-strong link, is one of the most effective ARO pieces in the game. Even in the reactive turn, against a 47-point 5-linked opponent, they stand a good chance of winning the FTF roll and killing the target. This model, with 4 friends to boost BS, B, and grant SSL2 is one of the most efficient selections in the entire game. Hands down. Auto win? No...that's where tactics come into play.

    The offensive Vet Kazak HMG link is incredibly unwieldy. The rest of the guys in the FT are tossers with regular Rifles and BS11. Its primary utility lies in shooting opponents from long range (unless your opponent is a bad player, in which case they'll move it to the midfield and give you a chance to pick it apart). I've been saying this in the Ariadna board forever, but everyone sees OMG BS16 ARIADNA LINK and thinks it's unbeatable. At best, it's a decent mid-game play, but the second it moves into the midfield it dies. If your opponent does that in the first turn, rejoice because you've probably just netted yourself ~90 points worth of enemy KIA. If it hangs back and plinks, either Bagh Mari or Kamau have a pretty good chance to kill the main active piece under the worst of circumstances.
     
    #29 TriggerPuller9000, Mar 22, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    BarbeChenue, Section9 and yoink101 like this.
  10. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    Well, OP asked how to beat Kazak in reactive turn and chances are as follows (assuming both are in 16-32'', in cover with full links):

    Veteran Kazaks - AP HMG vs. Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode)
    Active Player
    43.07% Veteran Kazaks inflicts 1 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Unconscious)
    16.06% Veteran Kazaks inflicts 2 or more wounds on Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) (Dead)

    Failures
    25.76% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    31.17% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Veteran Kazaks (0 W)
    12.22% Kamau Amphibious Intervention Teams (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Veteran Kazaks (Dead)

    I do not disagree about this model being one of better AROs - but if this is our best option (odds still in favour of attacker) then we can pretty much hide, or like someone said - lure guy into the midfield and then kill it in your active turns (what you've proposed and not really what OP was asking about).
     
  11. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    The way i've found most effective to take out tough links like that is via flame and not contesting dice rolls.

    Seriously, if they're gonna be hitting on 19s and there's nothing you can do to counteract that (cover, visual mods, burst reduction) then just dump a whole bunch of fire on them. NWI isn't that effective against the Fire special ammo, so make use of those Auxbots and anything else that runs the risk of multi-wound damage.

    Auxilia
    Hexas
    Crocmen
    Locusts
    Swiss Guard
    Cutters

    Stuff that helps to counteract their bonuses, or use direct templates to shut down the rest of the link when they try to get close.

    As many other people have said: If you don't have at least comparable odds in your face-to-face, don't do it.
     
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  12. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    That's some unrealistic expectations you have here guys. Any ARO unit which isn't TO will have unfavourable odds against a dedicated attack unit, period.
    Also, it's never about killing, the other guy, it's about delaying him. If he has to spend orders moving and firing with his vet kazak to kill your kamau he is not spending them on antipodes/dog warriors to rush them in your DZ, or streloks to do the mission.

    The kind of odds you have with the vet kazak against the kamau is the kind of odds I'd rather avoid as the vet kazak player. It's the kind of odds that would make me consider using grenades or a sneaky scout to weaken the link before engaging it, because while the odds are positive they're not good enough considering you're the one spending orders to take the fight, with a non negligeable risk of losing an expensive unit in the process.
     
  13. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    If your opponent spends several orders dragging a fragile fire team across the table to engage your cheaper fire team, just to engage in a matchup that he wins less than half the time and eats a bullet a third of the time...

    ...you have beat Kazak in reactive turn
     
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