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How competitive are MO?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Context, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    If you want to have a powerfull list: then yes those are usually most reliable/powerfull tools which you can get.

    So how many MO players were there on Interplanetario ? How well they have had ranked ?^^
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    :D
     
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  3. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Just more blaiming tools.

    This is why im sick of this place and its considered a joke.

    Good players make their tools work. Bad players blame their tools and complain when the good players try to point out new ideas.

    I know for myself and others that have competed with and placed well with MO that theres not some secret sauce or special ingredient we havent shared with you all. The only difference between winning and losing with MO is all on your attitude, willing ti try and listen.
    Claiming its some sort of list that only good players can make work is just a deflection, especially when you then refuse to listen to the posters trying to help you.
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Stop talking like mission lineup has no effect on list choice. Of course it does, thats no surprise nore is it a problem.
     
    SpectralOwl and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  5. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    But they don’t auto-win or work without any effort! I mean, where’s the fun in learning their strengths and leveraging them? They should simply be point-and-click perfect, without any thought or effort!
     
    Daemon of Razgriz and oldGregg like this.
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The idea that one army cannot give a relative advantage with respect to another, at the low end of skill, high end of skill, anywhere in between, or overall, is so stupid that it's a bad joke for you to keep repeating it.
     
    Guardian and meikyoushisui like this.
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't ever see people saying "This mission lineup is bad for Tohaa or OSS".
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  8. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    It's funny, because everyone seems to be angrily agreeing.

    There are some strengths to the new MO, and they perform well in a handful of scenarios which leverage those strengths well.

    But there are a lot of scenarios where MO are poorly suited, and they aren't a good choice for events running those.

    The only real point of contention seems to be what this means for the overall balance of MO as a Sectorial. And what an angry contention it is. There seems to be a lot of hyperbole being used on both sides, despite the core agreement.
     
    SpectralOwl likes this.
  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    A good carpenter can make a good house with a bad tool. A good carpenter can make a great house with a good tool.

    For a bad carpenter, the extra utility he gets from a good tool over a bad one is very small, but for a great carpenter, the good tool might make him 5-10% better at the tasks it is used to do compared to a bad tool.

    We are not arguing about carpenters, we're arguing about the quality of tools.
     
  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I do
    Like area control is bad for varuna
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    No no,

    We're good enough to win competitively with "poor" lists.

    But not good enough to judge if the list is poor, or to have evaluated why we choose it, or to be considered an authority able to give expert advice on the list we are winning games with...
     
    Cthulhu363, csjarrat, Lesh' and 2 others like this.
  12. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Well, of course not. After all, the Infallible Forumites have spoken, therefore it must be so.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I wasn't talking about Varuna, smart guy.
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    I recently met an OSS player preparing for a tournament with Transmission Matrix in it. He seemed to think that it really messed with his list building, forcing him to bring a list for TM only and another for every other mission. MO suck at a few other, different things. The adventurousness of the local TO is why I own four armies of varying size now; the mission lineup really shapes which strategies work and some armies accomodate those strategies far better. If I didn't prefer solo pieces MO would be a real contender for me in events with lots of killing or where last-turn button pushing with TO FO Specialist Sergeants would be useful.
     
  15. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    No.

    No. no. no...no...

    Actually, yes. You're right.

    People will embrace any argument to avoid having to admit that Git-Gud is the next step on their path to victory.
     
  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    You don't understand. I'm a good player. Ipso facto, if I can't deal with an obstacle presented to me in a game, it's because the obstacle is unfair.
     
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    One of these things is not like the others...

    You can evaluate why you chose an army because that is a matter of opinion. You can give expert advice on the armies/lists you are winning games with because advice is an opinion.

    The quality of an army is a matter of facts. In any asymmetric game, one is always going to perform the best in a given set of situations.

    Yes, there are missions where MO overperforms. No one is questioning that. When people say MO is bad, what they are saying is that the sum total of its average performance in all ITS missions, weighted by their spread at tournaments, is lower than other armies. This isn't an opinion, as this information could easily be gleaned by looking at how it has placed in large tournaments. It is a fact that MO has not been performing as well as most other armies in the game in the past few years, even post-rework.
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Because all armies perform equally well in ITS. Of course.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Considering HalfJackz iron manned a satellite tournament this year with OSS, and the tournament had Transmission Matrix in it, I disagree with this example strongly.
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Yeah so youve got you hypothesis, your facts and your experimentation all mixed up.

    Your hypothesis is that MO is weak
    The evidence is that some players are competing well with them and arguing.they are not weak. And other players doing poorly with them, arguing they are weak and refusing to listen to the demonstrations of how to use them from the first playerbase.

    The evidence (good players doing well with MO) does not support the original hypothesis (MO is weak) for two main reasons.
    Firstly the players winning with them are the most capable of offering an actual evaluation of the sectorial.
    Secondly those players are players who take the best tools for a mission/tournament they can and they are taking and winning with MO.

    Thus the hypothesis is rejected by the evidence and a new hypothesis needs to be formed that allows for MO not being weak.