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How competitive are MO?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Context, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. vicen85

    vicen85 Well-Known Member

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    I think I have expressed myself wrong. I have raised an example, not a list. I don't plan to spend 90 pts on hiding Lt.
    Wath I am saying is that if in a list all or almost all the knights there (regardless of their weaponry) could be Lt., we would no longer have the big problem of or obvious Lt.
    My apologies for not speaking English correctly, I do not know if I am transmitting what I have in mind.
     
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    There is something to be said about making your Lt hard the spec fire nuke from a Squalo or Lizard. Dodging on 13 or 14 because of SSL2 makes it annoying to get one wound much less two.
     
  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Are we really going to argue about if +1 BS outways all the advantages IA has in running a HI link? Tactical awareness, LT 2, characters that just work better in a link. Need I go on?
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they're a worse link. I said contrary to what was claimed, they don't shoot better. Statistically, they don't shoot better, the +1 BS accounts for an 8% swing if you want to engage a Kamau.
     
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  5. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Oh ok. I was thinking of the Hac Tao but that can't be in a link. I was trying to speak for the sectorial as a whole but I guess what I wrote was not clear. Oops. lol

    I'd also rate the Mowang as a better shooter. 1 less BS for Mimetism. Well worth it and makes a better overall shoot than just BS14 alone.
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Lack of Link bonuses still means its odds still aren't as good as a link of knights. In fact missing the +1 burst its odds are significantly worse.

    While we're on the topic of mimetic unlinkable shooters, I'll remind you MO has a BS15 mimetic TAG with an AP HMG.
     
    #86 Triumph, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    Sedral, daboarder and Ayadan like this.
  7. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    That costs 92 pts. and can not afford itself enough cheap orders to wreck havoc on the opponent. So if you take Tik you either playing in one group (which is a huge disadvantage in current edition) or LI.
    So if you want Tik just play SAA =)
     
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Sure, but it is EM ammo which he fears (single roll with half of BTS).
     
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  9. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    With all those new TAGs/profiles I tried several times the approach of 2x TAG MO list. Failed every time, and then I realized that Vanilla PanO does that better in several ways (hi Joan+Monstertrucker+Techbee+Helot+ZC).
     
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  10. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    I was running double-tag list only once on LI tournament. Then came Dart...
     
  11. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Care to share a list ?
     
  12. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    8 / 2
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    SERAPH HMG, 2 Nanopulsers / EXP CCW. (2 | 79)
    CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    TIKBALANG OF MONTESA (Religious Troop) AP HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CCW. (2 | 92)
    CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 33)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Also, i managed to win that game (Supremacy 4-2) because my opponent, for some reason, didn't kill IMM-2 Tags who were scoring zones.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about 1 combat group being a huge disadvantage. I can tell you right off the bat Adepticon was won by a Tunguska player only using limited insertion, and Cancon's finals featured ASS playing limited insertion vs @daboarder , and @Vohlere won the Firestorm Incursion satellite in the UK with OSS limited insertion with both lists one of which had a Marut.

    I can appreciate that you don't like playing limited insertion but it's definitely still competitive to go limited insertion vs multiple combat groups.
     
  14. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    Yeah, just my humble opinion, i still don't believe in LI lists against order spam. But hey, if they work for someone else that's awesome!
     
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  15. Lesh'

    Lesh' MAFter of Apes
    Warcor

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    well, some factions don't feel like at disadvantage when picking LI, e.g. Tunguska and ALEPH
     
  16. Quehacesfede

    Quehacesfede Professional Catastrophiser

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    HELL YEAH!

    I know the message is fairly old, been really busy with some work things, but there's some genius in this. Maybe this was the concept all the time, we were just too blind with this so called "trying to be competitive" thing to see it. What if CB actually wants us MO players to use our LTs the same way we would use a Force Commander in 40K?

    Next game, I'll use my Santiago LT + Magister link buddies as if they were an assault terminator squad from 40K. I don't think I'll achieve anything meaningful regarding tactics or out of the box battle mechanics, but I'm sure I'll have a great time.
     
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  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    So two winners from global selection, vs how many dozen non LI list?
    That's an argument in favour of LI how again?

    Wasn't that you posting that ONE MO player performing badly (=using small sample sizes is bad and I agree) is not a good indicator for MO's performance (and again I agree)?

    Total relaive numbers of LI participation compared to performance are entirely different.
    There are more than enough people playing LI lists in regular ITS to tell that it's a pretty and doesn't perform well.
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I don't have access to data from enough satellites to say conclusively either way, all I can say is that I do notice players winning and doing well with Limited Insertion across the globe. Firestorm Incursion 17/57 players ran at least one Limited Insertion list and out of the top three players 1st and 3rd were both running Limited Insertion.

    As for why does >10 orders seem more popular than limited insertion? Honestly, I think that's probably mostly a by product of Limited Insertion tends to be more viable by the factions at the very high tech end of the spectrum that either don't need to lean on alot of irregular or cheap troops or flat out don't have them. Look at Yu Jing, Vanilla crutches hard on Monks as a smoke source. You're basically not going to see a limited insertion list from most vanilla Yu Jing players at a tournament because monks are so attractive. Haqqislam, Ariadna, Vanilla Nomads, most of NA2 are all in a similar boat with the kinds of units they like to play.

    The very high tech end of the spectrum is a much more limited playing field in comparison. You're looking at Pan-O, IA, Aleph, Tunguska, and CA minus Morats. If you're going to find Limited Insertion players that like what they're playing my guess is you're going to find it in one of these factions/sectorials. Even amongst the very high tech factions there's still that unit choice influence. I would hazard a guess that a great deal of Varuna lists are not limited insertion because of how popular Helots are. No matter how good you can run a Limited Insertion list if you decided to play with Helots you probably won't because of how they fit into the army composition which I don't think is a reflection on the viability of Limited Insertion as a format either way.
     
    #98 Triumph, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    just q note, I wasnt running LI, had a 12 and a 13 order pool (including irregs)
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That's my bad, I must have misremembered one of your other lists, what were your Novacore MO lists again?