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How about that Dahshat mercenary company, huh?

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Joametz, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    This should not exist:

    Dahshat Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    ZÚYŎNG (Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    ZÚYŎNG (Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    KUM Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 10)
    KUM Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 10)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    It's a pretty absurd how a faction can exist that not only takes most of IA's schtick and does it better, but also has so much more built in versatility. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Dashat didn't just take the order efficiency gimmick and turn it on its head by also throwing it in with a crapload of versatile, cheap bodies, but it also presents within that added versatility a faction that honestly just looks a lot more enjoyable to play. As degenerate as this shit is, there's so many other ways you can run Dashat. And it kind of pisses me off, and not just because I feel it's some seriously blatant power creep (5 man core Rui Shi should never have been allowed to exist, especially in a faction with any access to smoke, let alone so much of it and so potently), but because it's such a strong juxtaposition with how bland IA is.
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @Weathercock that looks like an interesting list to play against. Yes, you have 20 orders, but most of those orders are essentially unarmed. It's going to either punish your opponent hard, or it's going to crash and burn, but the game will be done after 3 or 4 player turns.
     
  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    What @Mahtamori said basically. Either you go first and get a big hit in, or your opponent cripples you off the bat. TBH I don't like that list, for one that is basically going to be playing conflict heavy button pushing lite missions it kinda sucks if it goes second. It's fragile, lacks ARO presence, and has a super obvious LT.

    That last part I like the least given that Impersonation just propagated massively amongst other factions and Shas are gonna be flavour of the month very soon and popping up all over the place. Cancon's highest faction count was CA, that's the potential for an absolute shitload of speculos and grief operators floating about.
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying that that list itself is going to take home major tournament points (although it'll happily romp through newer players), but rather that in addition to its raw firepower through the order efficiency of Zuyongs, it also combines it with the worst of body spam lists too. There are definitely more potent configurations on the theme you could run. Zuyong core and haris is a bit much, you're likely better off relying on solo pieces for your secondary attacking force, but the idea in this example was more in degeneracy than building an actually good list.

    A more serious approach would probably include more bounty hunters and ghulams as cheerleaders (and to better hide the Lt). Part of Dashat's great versatility comes from being able to shuffle bounty hunters and other wildcards across fireteams so easily. But that's more time than I'd like to put towards Dashat at the moment before I ultimately give in and start actually designing lists for myself.

    The point here is that the state of Dashat itself just feels so min-max-ey and dirty. And it represents a direction I'd rather not have the game head in.
     
    Section9 likes this.
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Would you be happier if it had a stronger theme or fluff to tie it together? Of all the Merc companies it has the weakest feeling fluff tieing it together feeling more like a min maxer's basement concoction than the others (that said, I believe FC is a shitload stronger than people understand right now. Core links starting halfway up the table are brutal in efficiency).

    With that said having read the fluff most of the units in there make sense from a narrative perspective (The ariadna stuff doesn't really make sense, does anyone know if the Kum have ties with Ariadna?). It is extremely poorly conveyed though as I believe Dahshat hasn't really been a thing before in the narrative.
     
    #345 Triumph, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  6. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!

    Yes, I was arguing from fluff as to why Asshat Company shouldn't have TacAware profiles, but my concern was gameplay. Because I know CB really prefers fluffy lists to gamey lists overall.


    Maybe? I'd need to read the fluff first.

    Overall, though, it really feels like the theme of Dahshat Company is the best parts of Haqq with the best parts of YJ/IA.

    As far as the Ariadna stuff being in there, it could simply be a counts-as profile, not actual Ariadnan troops. I mean, it's 112s, Dozers, and Traktor Muls (and I think the only reason Dozers are in the list is because according to the rules you need one for the Muls). The Urugan and Katyusha are super-simple and cheap arty, saves you from spending all your cash on Smart Missile Launcher and ammo. 112s are excellent field medics, and they are the cheapest full medic in the game.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Nah. No Tarik, no Mutta, no Fiday, super-expensive Hafza (aka Sforza) and arguably Kasym and Zuleyka are the best Kum while the basic Kum are a bit meh.
     
    barakiel and Solar like this.
  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    No Farzan, no Daylami, no Mukhtar, no Djanbazan... Like there's some great stuff but it's not "best of" and the IA stuff is great but not "best of" either.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t exist because no one would actually take that. I’ve played Dahshat 4 times now and it’s really not that fantastic. I like it a lot but its’ not over powered as far as I can see so far. Yes you can take some cheap orders but those troops themselves are not fantastic, and you’d think that you can just Rambo a few but other than Saito and McMurough, there’s not really good Rambo. However, I’m new to using both of them so I can’t really say yet.

    The cheap stuff like the Kameel, Traktor Muls are on huge bases and don’t last long at all because they have little cover.
    The Rui Shi is great but it’s also target priority #1! Good players take out at ASAP.
    The troops that can get some things done are Irregular.
    There’s only 3 troops to choose from for the Lt. so it’s pretty easy to pick him out.

    Edit: this is a list I'm gong to be taking next agains Ramah. So far I've been stomped twice with them. BTW make sure to have good ARO if you are going second. But t's going to suffer because I put so much into the ARO.

    Dahshat Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    ZÚYǑNG HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    McMURROUGH 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Templar CCW (AP + DA). (0 | 32)
    HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    BRAWLER (Infinity Spec-Ops) (6 XP) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #349 Space Ranger, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  10. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    That's actually pulled from the Wiki, I didn't pick up my DF until after posting that actually.

    IA already wasn't the only place with TA, but I do agree the order spam for Dahshat is ridiculous.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The big difference between them is the Haidao. IA has long ranged MSV2, Dahshat has to defeat the enemy sniper first. IA can, if they choose, embed a KHD, Dahshat can't cautious move their Zuyong. IA can stick a very cheap missile launcher (that single-handedly dictates games, btw) while Dahshat can't.

    Zuyong in Dahshat is a bit of a trap. Sure, they can, but it might be best not to unless facing Tohaa or Ariadna. Also, bringing Rui Shi makes list building awkward I've found. The lone Ghulam or Gromoz (whom you really don't want wildcarded into the Rui Shi link) is very vulnerable.

    Dahshat's charm is McMurrogh and Saito duo. I'm seriously considering picking it up for that reason, though I'll probably use Raging Heroes models for McMurder and the Bounty Hunters and/or Brawlers. We'll see.

    (Edit: IA *Zuyong fireteam* has long range MSV2. I'm aware of the Brawler sniper, don't worry :) )
     
  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    oops wrong thread.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I really think that if Dashat didn't have the fireteam core Rui Shi it would be much more palatable. I can't say the sectorial is overpowered, but linkable Rui Shi is just dumb.
     
  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Dahshat's got the most crowded Deployment Zone in the history of Infinity, and their dedicated defensive troops (Libertos Minelayers) are really SWC-intensive and also Irregular. It also has a high concentration of Hackable targets, and not a lot of great counters to Infowar.

    I think there are weaknesses to exploit there, but some armies will have an easier time punishing them than other armies.
     
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  15. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I would put linkable (let alone core!) Rui Shi up there with burst 6+ weapons. This shit should not be in the game.
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I know that using a pretty infowar heavy RTF force against them really makes them struggle. MSV2 plus guys who can soak a chain rifle plus strong hacking equals Dahshat struggling to bring it's advantages (smoke, piece tradey chaff and hackable firepower) to bear.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    It's a 1W MSV2 Spitfire. Ugly to face, but not any worse than a Hsien MSV2 HMG in a link. The Kamau MSR is worse.
     
  18. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Hell, it's less than a Deva MSV2 Spitfire in many ways and no one complains about them (admittedly the only way to get smoke in OperationS is a lucky roll with the AVA 2 ABH's bounty)
     
    Space Ranger likes this.
  19. Henshini

    Henshini Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with the sentiment, you're also forgetting that it should never not have marksmanship from it's friendly neighborhood hacker, it can ignore nearly all negative modifiers.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    But it's also best on the attack.The times I went first were great. The times I went second, not so much. It was destroyed before it could do anything. It's target priority #1.