Does it say anywhere in the rules that I must mark a 360 arc on my model? What does a 360 arc look like. Do I still have to mark the 180' arc, most of the rules would seem to say yes. 360 doesn't remove the requirement to mark the 180. You see what you're doing is extrapolating from the word expands. This pushes the whole conversation out of exactly what the rules say. At which point other factors are considered like, is this reasonable interpretation, or does this break other rules. As for your example for figuring out a Sekban, you realise the only part of the rules that vaguely supports that is this: p61 - "Checking all possible Lines of Fire for all figures and Markers on the table can be cumbersome. It is perfectly acceptable for a player to ask their opponent whether existing Lines of Fire could disrupt the declaration of a given Order before declaring it. Players are expected to share this Open Information in a truthful and sportsmanlike manner. Honesty and fair play are conducive to a better gaming atmosphere, and all players benefit from that." Which is mostly about honesty and fair play. I'd hope any player would laugh in your face if you were trying to use the honesty and fair play clause of the rules to figure out private information by asking for LoF to parts of the table completely irrelevant to your turn. LoF is open information as it is pertinent to your decisions. LoF is not open for you to troll your opponent by checking every single possible angle of every model to every point on the table.
It’s the other way around at this point. I’ve cited multiple rules but you haven’t demonstrated why you think Holoprojector trumps the LOF being open information. These pieces of information are Private in Infinity: Your troopers' Cost and SWC. The identity of your Lieutenant, whether the one originally fielded as such or one appointed in-game. The presence of Hidden Deployment troopers. The presence of Airborne Deployment troopers. The presence of troopers disguised by Holoprojector (see Infinity. Human Sphere). The contents of your Camouflage and TO Camouflage Markers. The contents of your Impersonation Markers. Any Special Skill, weapon or piece of Equipment possessing the Private Information Label. And from the infamous blue box: Checking all possible Lines of Fire for all figures and Markers on the table can be cumbersome. It is perfectly acceptable for a player to ask their opponent whether existing Lines of Fire could disrupt the declaration of a given Order before declaring it. Players are expected to share this Open Information in a truthful and sportsmanlike manner So CB explicitly states that LOF is Open information. You’re saying that Holoprojector somehow trumps this, which you have yet to demonstrate how that statement is true. This is what Holoprojector says: REMEMBER The presence of troopers in Holoprojector L1 state is considered Private Information. This also includes the Special Skills they have and their weapons and pieces of Equipment, too. However, in Holoprojector L1 state the Hackable Characteristic is considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the Hacking Area of an enemy. They only talk about hiding the presence of the trooper, there’s no mentioning of their LOF suddenly becoming private information, merely that the unit is disguised and what it actually is are private information. Nothing to do with LOF.
So is whether or not a trooper revealed on the board has ODD. And thus a trooper in Holo 1 simulates the presence of ODD until it comes time to roll dice. A trooper with Holo 1 similarly simulates a 360 visor or MSV 2+.
Yes. Literally the rules my dude. They aren’t telling to paint an arbitrary 180 degree arc, they are referring to the 180 degree arc in the rules: Your post is full of hostility. Try to actually read my posts and stop assuming malicious intent. The ITS clearly states that you should mark your 180 LOF Arc (explicitly not the front arc but the LOF Arc) which the rules says you have to clearly mark the limits of your LOF, which the 360 visor increases.
For a person mocking others, you sure do come across as stupid or clueless at best. Literally nowhere has anyone ever stated that you couldn’t simulate MSV2. You’re not allowed to draw LOF through smoke, because at that point you’re no longer simulating MSV2, you’re benefiting from the skill dumb dumb. My main point here is that the 360 arc is not something you can simulate or “fake”. To obtain 360 LOF you have to benefit from the equipment. Quite simple. Now, I’m counting 10+ posts in this thread by you and you have yet to make a single argument. So far, your only pathetic attempt at rebuttal has been by trying to attribute malicious intent to my posts, attempt to make me admit to said malicious intent so you can shame me, on top of reeking of an insecure pseudo intellectual. Quite frankly, I find your behaviour repulsive.
@Zewrath You're also on record as saying that if someone tosses a smoke grenade in view of a camo token, it's bad form to then ask if they can see through it, and as a TO you wouldn't allow it. Why the hypocrisy on this issue? You play Nomads and not Haqq?
Yeah I'm out. Zewarth is more interested in being right than discussing the rules. Sorry mate, don't agree with your interpretation and any amount of quoting the same words doesn't really change that.
Hafza appears as a Sekban. The Sekban's LoF is open information. While in Holoprojector L1 state, players don't place the Holoprojector L1 bearer's model but the model of any other trooper (known as the imitated model) fitting the Holoprojector L1 Requirements and declaring which weapon option it is replicating from the imitated model's Troop Profile. The Hafza's LoF is private information: The presence of troopers in Holoprojector L1 state is considered Private Information. This also includes the Special Skills they have and their weapons and pieces of Equipment, too. So you wouldn't know that the Hafza/Sekban doesn't actually have LoF behind him, until you move a unit behind him to proc an ARO, because he is using his equipment (lack of equipment, in this case), rather than the equipment of the imitated model. The base marking "issue" is completely negated by having the Sekban's LoF marked as a 360 with a mark at the 180 as well (I do this on all my 360 models). You're trying to use it as a stipulation for rules, when it doesn't effect them/matter.
This. The figure is a Sekban. The Sekban's LOF is open information. The trooper's actual LOF remains private information.
The entire purpose of Holo 1 is to mislead your opponent about a trooper’s open information by replacing it with different open information. Why would LoF be exempted from this?
Agreed. The exceptions are spelled out in the holoprojector rules, such as hack-ability and deployables/token bots.
I think Hidden Deployment was actually a really good example, because a model in HD is allowed to ARO based on the LoF they would have had, were their model physically present on the table.
The fact that there is LoF between your active model and the rear facing of a Sekban is open information. The fact that the Sekban has a 360 visor is open information. That this means the Sekban can see your model is a deduction you can make from the available open information. If the Sekban is a Sekban, I'll ARO and get a FtF roll against your attack. If the Sekban is actually a Hafza, I'll decline to ARO, since I don't actually have LoF, granting you a normal roll.
How do you guys quote the very same rule as I literally quoted and conclude that his LOF is private information, despite the fact that your citation doesn’t provide any actual basis for your claim? You can hide the trooper all you want. Him having a 360 Arc is not something you can ever claim to have, you haven’t actually shown anything in the rules that gets around this. Forget the marking on the base from the ITS rules. The LOF arc exists In the game as part of the troopers profile, you are always required to disclose this. The only way you can ever claim it to be altered is by having a piece of equipment, you don’t have that equipment, you can never claim to have the 360 arc.
Your response wasn’t a discussion nor a refutation. You were being butthurt for me citing rules. Nothing to do with with what I’m interested in or not.
A figure has 180 degree LOF arc, as per the cited rules. The only way it has 360 degree LOF arc is through an extension granted by a piece of equipment, as per the cited rules. The figure posing as a Sekban does not have this equipment, it cannot have a 360 degree arc.
With respect for that I've not yet read page 3 and 4; I'm arguing that your reasoning is backwards. You're stating that Holo1 has no effect on Automatic E/S, but instead of looking on the actual Holo trooper you're looking on the pretend trooper. I.e. following you logic a Kanren Holoed as a Crane wouldn't gain the benefits of the X-visor (no one is arguing this) but your logic apparently dictates that since Holo doesn't affect Automatics, the Kanren is also incapable of pretending to have an X-visor. It is not a question of what equipment a Holo trooper has or can use, but that when in Holo1 state what is open and private information is vastly different and that dysfunctional equipment is also private info.
I'm not being hypocritic about anything. We're discussing the rules mechanics of the game, which is vastly different from how RAW is carried out in actual pratice. I've given multiple examples like how sticking people on walls and forcing normal rolls via super jump is perfectly legal RAW but nothing I (or anyone I know of for that matter) would ever play in practice so me rejecting the gameplay example provided by Mahtamori is perfectly in line with everything I've said so far. The example that Mahtamori provided is totally legit per the rules but a fine example of being a dick move, just like wall sticking etc. My statement regarding LOF on the backside is from a RAW perspective which needs to be challenged and stretch, in order to avoid having these types of discussions to a tournament or perhaps find out any flaws in rulings that needs FAQ/Errata or simple pragmatic solutions. Your pathetic attemtps at outrage and is not a refutation of any of my arguments, despite the fact that you have made exactly zero arguments in this entire thread.
No a trooper posing as a Sekban does not have a 360 Visor and can't in any way benefit from it. The figure is a Sekban. The Sekban figure's LOF is Open Information.
