So the rule is more specific than that. Symbiomates/bombs/tinbots aren't deployable equipment at all. They're equipment represented by Game State Markers/Models. The rule states we can't duplicate Deployable Equipment (IE: Deployable Repeaters or Netrods (edit: On further reflection I'm not sure that netrods are deployable equipment and I'm too lazy to double check) for example). It then states we also can't copy a subset of equipment represented by game state markers. To phrase it another way. If I said you can't wear any hazmat suits, or yellow helmets. You can wear anything you like. Are you allowed to wear a yellow hazmat helmet? Another thing to consider is what is this rule saying if its not saying you can't duplicate Symbiomates? What is the rules purpose in your interpretation?
also, further reinforcing this reading, is that holoecho 1 includes the same line about not replicating deployable equipment represented by a marker. which would make the line about replicating game state markers the more specific in this case, as it applies in less situations.
the rules purpose is that you cannot have a kotail pretend to be a clipsos minelayer and drop three camo markers, or pretend to be a kaeltar and put up 6 fake symbiomate markers on other troops
If we want to get into what the purpose of the rule is we've already had a playtester and Wiki editor who is in frequent contact to the writer of the rules confirm that the purpose of mentioning Symbiomates specifically was to stop you replicating Symbiomates. Of course I'm aware that this is an appeal to authority fallacy, just be careful you don't commit a fallacy fallacy.
In this case I'm simply pointing out what the actual rule says, but in case that was in reply to TheRedZealot's post, that's not even about whether I was answering correctly, but pointing out as one of the editors and testers involved why that bit of text was added to the rules - which was to stop SymbioMates/SymbioBombs being duplicated in any way by Holoprojector.
the core of my argument is that i think that the rules state you cannot put down false markers that would be granted to you by holoecho, but that if you are given markers from another source then they are replicated. it seems to me the people arguing against it are saying you cannot put down false markers, and that markers given to you from another source are not replicated.
No, we're pointing out that the rules say that Holoprojectors can't replicate SymbioMates. Period. That's both rules as written and rules as intended.
if that is so, it should prolly read: "However, the Holoecho state replicates all the game state Markers (Prone, Unloaded...) the Holoprojector L2 bearer has, unless those markers are markers granted by a deployable weapon or piece of equipment." (bold for new text) the "however" in the second line really throws it off (which is in the source), as it makes this line a specific rule that overrides the previous rule
If the Holo 2 was duplicating the Symbiomates on the Kaeltar than why would it duplicate the mates on a model with one assigned? It would have to duplicate one or the other wouldn't it not both? I'm pretty sure we're trying to say just that the rules say you can never duplicate a symbiomate using Holo. Or at least thats what I'm saying.
Yep, it could be better written, you can say that about a lot of rules, a lot of games even! The fact that Infinity isn't written by primary English speakers doesn't help either. But it still doesn't let you replicate a Symbiomate ;)
i was offering that as a suggestion for how it could be in an faq if they wanted the rules to actually work the way they say they do. seeing as how it is currently written, where the specific "however you replicate game markers" overrides the general "symbiomates are not replicated" because of that one little "however" makes it so symbiomates are replicated. i mean, you can act like they can't be all you want to, but they can be according to the current ruleset.
unless the ellipsis in game state markers does not include symbiomates, but then how would we know what game state markers are actually included in that ellipsis
So the rules are saying Here is a list of things you can't do. Everything else in this category is fair game. You can't draw squares but you can draw as many rectangles as you want. Edit: Are you familiar with Set theory at all?
Actually it explicitly calls out Symbiomates as something that can't be replicated, we've then had confirmation that Symbiomates and Tinbots were put in the list as examples specifically to show that they can't be taken. If they weren't explicitly and purposefully called out then I'd agree that it is unclear (They fall into a category that is allowed but also a second category that is not allowed) but as the rules go out of their way to say that Symbiomates can't be replicated then I cannot agree with your interpretation of the text.
somewhat. i get what you guys are saying, that the specific calling out in the example set makes it so they cannot be copied. can no one understand my point of view? ok there is set A, consisting of things that don't get copied, and there is set B which is things that do get copied. the rules say: do not copy set A however copy set B the however in there makes it so that any object which happens to be in both set A and B would be copied. my argument is that since symbiomate refers to two distinct objects in the game- the equipment and the marker, that it is possible for there to be a different "symbiomate object" in each set. in this argument, symbiomate the equipment is in set A, and it cannot be replicated. symbiomate the marker is in set B, which does get copied. this would make the naming of symbiomates in the example make logical sense, as it is referring to symbiomates to equipment. even if symbiomate does not refer to two distinct objects in the sets, the "however" in the rules makes it so that it does get copied. in order for this rule to function so that symbiomates are not copied, it needs to read: copy set B however, do not copy set A in addition set A needs to explicitly include equipment that grants markers as well as the markers themselves.
I absolutely understand your point of view It's just that I disagree with your interpretation, and I believe the text supports our reading more than yours.
Sure I understand your argument the rules are written in a slightly confusing way. Its just not backed up by a very careful reading and the experience of an expert on the rules. The problem here is that we're talking about a single set, all the game state markers and a subset all the equipment game state markers. This is part of what makes the first rule more specific. We're disallowing the use of the Subset of Equipment markers, from the All Game State Markers. Example If I said You cannot write Subset B {2, 4} Write Set A {1, 2, 3, 4, 5... 100} You write 1, 3, 5 ... 100 This is a key part here. There are not two distinct objects. The Symbiomate marker is the equipment. They are the same singular item. typically we would see something like Copy Set A excluding Subset B. You're right. But that isn't the only way to present the information. Remember we're talking a subset of a larger category. Think of the following sentences You cannot own a BMW however you must own a Car. You must own a car however it cannot be a BMW. Both mean the same thing but they are positioned differently. One might be alittle more confusing then the other too :P
