Ok, since everyone wimped out on the Negativity Thread, I'll throw this up there. Now please, don't disappoint by going off topic and introducing factors that aren't. So the basic situation is how can you use Holo 1 repeatedly without having to rebuild your list every single game? Because after seeing your list the third time or so and the only changes being what the disguise is, it becomes a relatively easy matter to notice what changes and those are the holo models trying to be tricking even though it's gotten pretty stale by now. Currently I have a list I hope to use more than twice that includes both an Ayyar and a Hafza. (To be posted below if the software cooperates). Haqqislam Sucks ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GOVAD HMG / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) GOVAD Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) GOVAD Sniper Rifle / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 4 1 ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39) RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Red Fury, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 22) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) HAFZA Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I change my list basically every game unless I'm practicing for a tournament in which case I might only make minor changes and will probably largely play people I didn't practise against so I don't have this problem at all, personally. Also even if your opponent knows you take Holo, and knows what could be Holo, you can still use that against them. A classic example of this is that even if your opponent knows you always take an Ayyar, he doesn't know what Daylami are really Daylami or are the Ayyar or are a holo. So you can get pretty mass Panzerfaust coverage without needing to take mass Panzerfaust coverage.
Yeah, I can see this list working on regular basis. Anything with 2-3 repeating models + Holo 1/2 unit is bound to work multiple times, especially if you add some mix-ups to make your opponents paranoid of which model is which. Another one neat combo is 2-3 Halqa + Yasbir. Easy to change from game to game (so is THIS the real Halqa group, or THAT one?) and quite fun.
As far as Yasbir goes, he makes an appearance every now and then with my regular Halqa team. So it's far more worry about which of the (typically) three Halqa he may be. Staying on topic, what would you do. Tomorrow, what would the Ayyar be and what would the Hafza be? Appearing a legal list is less of a priority than simple confusion. I know that's more micromanagement than I was encouraging.
If you take exactly the same list with a TO Camo guy and you deploy 9 guys in CG1, your opponent knows there is a TO Camo guy. It is a game with hidden information. If you play your list, and then play the same person with the same list... they know what your hidden information is cos that's how that works. If anything, Holo is better than most things for that, because you can pretend to be different things! You can't do that with TO Camo or a Drop Trooper or whatever! Or your LT!
Like Your complaint actually makes no sense. There is no way in the world that your opponent won't know if you play them again and change nothing. That's... how information works.
So your contention is that holo as a disguise is useless beyond a one-off game against the same opponent?
No, that's not what I said. I think Holo is very useful and effective, even in that situation. I think your assessment of why it is bad is incorrect, and based on a flawed premise.
I can't comment on the Ayyar usage as I haven't used it yet. But when I don't want to think about my Hafza HRL, I disguise it as a second warcor. No matter how many times I've played the same opponent, it causes a headache for them, and no headache for me re: changing lists
Look, if you post a view, people are allowed to disagree. If you say "this is shit" you can't get up in arms when people say "no it isn't" and you don't get to seal off a thread from disagreement with it's central premise. Also; consideration as to the health of the wider community is important. Sub-forums with "negativity!" or "RTF is crap!" threads drag down the entire community. It's clickbait-y, attention seeking and contributes to every thread becoming an extended whinge.
Yeah, I see how that was a big mistake to create that thread. I thought venting up the disappointments was a good idea, can't believe how wrong I was. Terribly sorry for this :(
I don't quite get it. Holo is entirely about making it harder to tell what is what. You can mask your comp (so that it requires changing your lists sometimes) or mask what is where, which is more limited, but for entirely objective reasons. That goes without saying, pretty much.
I didn't state a view. I stated an objective. A thought experiment if you will. These forums have behaved as I should have expected.
Well, some posts in this thread did outline uses that don't require changing your lists. They didn't include list examples, but I don't think "use Ayyar echoes to pose as Daylami, and then some real Daylami" or something along these lines requires you to use very specific lists.
