Please see the post about TO/Camo Hackers etc. But it doesn't work anyway, because you still have to rewrite Idle and all the other Marker States. Hidden Deployment is only one of the things that would be affected by this.
I’ve started using Noctifer MLs as my standard for “is this some bullshit or just the game as intended” questions about the rules. This feels less bad than a Noctifer ML, so I’m good.
Could you elucidate the counter-play that one can use to punish TO-Lt ARO-declaration when clearly outside 8"? Because I would like to punish that. Benching one's last order is possible but also costs you an order, and might be expected. Are there other counters?
Just read the first few responses ;) E.g. declare last few orders with Stealth units only or simply forfeit it/them if you're sure their LT is in hidden deployment
Ah okay, I thought I might have missed something more profound than "do nothing effective with your last orders and hope you guessed right." This makes me wish there was an AD unit with Tac Aware. Sure would be funny to have the opponent's LT reveal on your "last" order, then drop a boarding shotty right behind it with an order of shots left.
FWIW: Putting your opponent in LoL with your last 1-2 orders is a HIGHLY EFFECTIVE use of those orders, IMHO.
Seems like a clunky rules exploit. If this is supposed to be part of the rules, why not make it clear that ZoC AROs can be declared from anywhere on the table?
The more I think about this, the more this ruling breaks the game. If an ARO can be declared it must be taken at the time or the chance to ARO is lost. If dodge can be declared table wide then your opponent must take the ARO. You can now ARO force from anywhere on the table. Either that or the implication is that you do not need to declare a valid ARO, and instead can declare any ARO you please and wait to see if it is valid during the resolution step.
yeah it could make for some nightmare scenarios if you end up facing ninja force lists I think the problem is more with hidden deployment than with the aro rules both need to be revised maybe in the first expansion whenever it drops
How so? The issue about lof is a separate one that has been explicitly called out in the faq, the only actions allowed are zoc aro declaration that if the user was not within 8" becomes an idle. Declaring the skill is what breaks marker state so unless you can declare delay against an active marker state, you gain the order, but will forfeit your marker state defense.
They've outright stated that this is the case. The only exception in N4 is BS Attack, as allowing you to declare BS Attack against an invalid target opens up a whole can of worms.
That is explicitly how non-LoF AROs work in N4, requirements for ARO are not checked until step 5 of the Expenditure Sequence. As to your other issue, it's addressed here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/the-elephant-in-the-room-order-declaration.39408/
I believe the issue is one part that ijw answered here but not quite explicitly in the rule book. When you get the first chance to aro, your aro is forfeit if you give up your aro when you had a *valid* aro. You may postpone to the 2nd short skill if you believed the first short skill aro had no valid declaration and you believe you have a valid one as the 2nd short skill. This does mean during resolution that you have to check at that place if there was a valid but ignored aro (in which case the aro becomes idle). The ends up with some annoying book keeping but is manageable.
I would say it mostly "was". At this point the designers are well aware of the consequence of the ruling and, if they wanted to prevent this application, they could have provided a faq or an errata. If they have not, then they are now supporting this implicitly. As I don't think "Well, you could techinically but you actually should not" is something to consider for a healthy game environment.
Why are we ignoring restrictions on illegitimate AROs for some AROs, but not others? And if you can declare an illegitimate ARO, but not a BS attack, here is an example of what this does. If I have a model outside of LoS, and an opponent has a sniper covering a fire lane, I can move my model to the corner, then the opponent must declare their Sniper's ARO, (which cannot be a BS attack), and then I can move across the fire lane with impunity, while my opponent gets their now valid dodge.
