Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Maksimas, Mar 19, 2019.
Anyone can beat Su-Jian?
Achilles. Achilles can absolutely beat Su-Jian. In every sense of the word.
Swiss guard > All
Yj have only toys
Are we looking at the same profiles? Are you telling me that those YJ Troopers have, for example, PH10 and ARM0 in their second wound?
And so we are getting to the point when we have to ask ourselves some philosophical questions. What does being HI means to you?
Having bulky models covered with plates? Being hackable and extra vulnerable to EM? Being capable of still running around after spraying environments with your entrails once? Having a formal label? Having basic statline not worse than of certain quality?
Because it seems to me posters ITT, myself included, are all over the place about this one.
I don't know, are we? Are you telling me that Taquel doesn't have BS 13, BTS 6 and WIP 14 on their first wound? Or is it that you're telling me Liu Xing and Minutemen have more than 1 wound?
Stats isn't a signifier for HI. It's true a Taquel or Sukuel are not HI, but that's because they aren't vulnerable to E/M, not because they have lower stats (which isn't true, they kind of have the same stats as low-end HI). It's still very true, however, that Tohaa can emulate and exceed the longevity of HI.
What heresy is dis? Su Jian accumulates so huge amounts of swag, he cannot be beaten.
Let me show you why Achilles cant do that.
At first, Neko Oyama exists. And that shows us, that Achilles DOES NOT EVEN LIFT. And someone who does not even lift cannot beat the Su Jian.
Oh, you think the swag is Su-Jian's ally? It merely adopted the swag. Achilles was born in it, molded by it. The swag betray Su-Jian, because it is Achilles made flesh.
I have never talked about the stats of the first Wound because one of the differences when comparing a standard HI is that they keep their stats after losing that first Wound, while Tohaa's Symbiont Armour troopers loose stats (and sometimes also they loose skills and equipment).
HI is generally defined by several points:
- Being Hackable
- Having high stats in the BS, PH, ARM and BTS cathegories
- Capable of surviving after losing one wound
Tohaa Symbiont Armour troopers might have more than one Wound, but the second profile is very meh, thats what keep them cheap.
As we have discussed many times, the point formula used by CB make HI expensive because of their high stats across the profile. I'm not saying that it's fair or that it shouldn't be rebalanced, I'm just explaining the way things are.
Yeah, I'm just pointing out that with the latest HI releases, CB has shown that from 2019 and onwards, none of those three qualities are indicative qualities of HI. It's time we stopped treating Ariadnan HI as some sort of aberration and simply take the individual units at face value.
We also have Willpower.
A Su-Jian duo.
Only a Su-Jian can best a Su-Jian!
I just wanted to point out the only faction where I have seen all-HI that consistently kicked all the ass is MO
I do consider Tohaa to have a lot of light-HI, roughly on par with the new models in IA. Yes, Tohaa lose stats after taking enough wounds to drop their Symbiont Armor. They're still freaking Guyvers!
There's no need to be snarky about it. I'm aware of the drawbacks, but the advantages of Symbiont Armor far outweigh them. The costing makes it seem more as if the no-symbiont armor profile is a bonus that Tohaa are paying almost nothing for when you compare similar units. Look at an Ectos vs a Mobile Brigada (HMG profiles.) For just 3 points more, the Ectros is getting a Nanopulser, +3BTS, +4CC, Kinematica Lv1, and -1 ARM. Oh yeah, and an entire third wound with a reduce statline -- and that's without getting any cost reduction tools like Frenzy. Also, given the rise of E/M ammo, I would say the Fire weakness is made up for by the ability to just decide to cancel IMM-2 without a roll.
That's insane. There's no way that 3 points pays for all of that.
For more of this, compare a Nikoul to a Bagh-Mari MSR. I can't understand how that wound is so cheap, especially knowing how much sapper costs (compare Acon Regular MSR profile to Fusilier MSR profile).