An upcoming tournament has the following scenarios: Firefight, Safe Area, Transmission Matrix, Supplies and Acquisition. Spec ops with 12XP is allowed. I have two sample lists below. Please provide feedback if you like! This is my first infinity tournament but I'm not new to miniature gaming in general. First, my take on the scenarios. Firefight - Specialists may be a slight disadvantage here. Otherwise, it's all killing - kill points, kill datatracker, kill the lieutenant, kill everything! One point available for an infiltrating or AD specialist. Preference to go first. Safe Area - To help with scoring reach, infiltrators seem handy. Otherwise, as points are at the end of the game it will mostly come down to killing. Hardy datatracker is a plus to keep him alive. A specialist or two for a late game console is worth a few points. Extra useful if that specialist has AD. Preference to go second here. Transmission Matrix - No specialists required but hackers have lots of extra power - both in range and getting themselves ganked by KHD. Same caution required for TAGS/HI. Focus on killing models off the zones as they are unlikely to be close to cover. A strong shooting datatracker seems like a must. As points are scored each round, infiltrators are probably very useful in quick board coverage. Going second seems to be the preference. Supplies - This one is all specialists, fighting seems almost a second thought. Lots of infiltrating specialists to grab those supplies and bring them back to a safe area. Definitely need good ARO in case you are unlucky enough to go second. Preference is to go first! Acquisition - With long 16" deployment zones and the fight converging around the central coffin, you seem to need a good defense and a hardy, close-range fighter datatracker to sit on the objective. A couple of specialists will help for a couple of points on late game antenna snags. Could go first or second on this one. So here's what I'm thinking: For Firefight, Safe Area, Acquisition Nomads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 SIN-EATER HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 33) INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54) GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. () MORAN Boarding Shotgun, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) VORTEX Spec-Ops (12 XP) (Minelayer, Engineer, Infiltration) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) GROUP 2 2 INTRUDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 35) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The intruder lieutenant is to keep safe in Firefight and the gecko datatracker is to run up the middle of the board for Safe Area and Acquisition. The Intruder HMG should account for most of the soft kills with the Zeroes and Moran responsible for HI or Tags. Having the 2x intruders allows for some misdirection during deployment so I can leave the Gecko as reserve to avoid a first turn pounding on him. I only have one source of smoke but hopefully not everyone will know the panzerfaust jaguar doesn't have smoke which might telegraph which marker is the HMG... The Hellcat is the tool for anything hiding in total cover. The army is a bit more compact to hopefully avoid giving up points (Firefight) and to provide a bit more concentrated points punch for zone control in Safe Area. For Transmission Matrix and Supplies Nomads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 KRIZA BORAC Lieutenant HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) INTRUDER (X-Visor) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 43) INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) VORTEX Spec-Ops (12 XP) (Minelayer, Engineer, Infiltration) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) GROUP 2 2 1 1 HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 6) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Four infiltrating specialists with 2 minelayers and 4 koalas should help with grabbing objectives and annoyance. It may not be very strong on ARO and will require the Kriza and Intruder to step in (a little risky) but ran out of SWC for a Sineater or HMG bot. This is why the intruder has a sniper rather than HMG. As long as he doesn't eat shock or EXP, he will hopefully fall prone where the zondbot can pick him back up. It felt safer to make the Kriza the lieutenant rather than the Interventor for Transmission Matrix. Any thoughts? In general, I require the "rule of cool" meaning all lists need one S5 or larger model as a center piece. Additionally, I think warcors and flashpulse bots are the stupidest thing in the world... why would my commandos bring a flash light to a black ops mission?! Therefore, they will never be in my lists, no matter how tournament useful they may be. This arbitrary restriction on the cheap models means I normally cap out at 12-13 models. I have most of the models in the range so can take a little of anything. The only exception is I only have a single Morlock (from the Bakunin box) as the rest of the models are a little silly. That may change based on January rumours! I've had fairly good success with a few variations on these lists in the last dozen games but look forward to any feedback.
My toughts to your firt list: Sin-Eaters and Geckos suck (personal experience). I'd rather swap the Gecko for the HMG Kriza too and get a Reaktion Zond instrad of a Sin-Eater Spoiler: First list suggestions Nomads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 1 DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) KRIZA BORAC HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54) MORAN Boarding Shotgun, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 20) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) VORTEX Spec-Ops (12 XP) (WIP:14, Minelayer, Engineer, CH: Mimetism) Combi Rifle, Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) ZERO (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 3 INTRUDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 35) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Your 2nd list got Le Muet and a more competent Killerhacker from me: Spoiler: Second list suggestions Nomads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ARMAND (Multispectral Visor L1) MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / 2 Breaker Pistols, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (1.5 | 45) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) KRIZA BORAC Lieutenant HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54) INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) VORTEX Spec-Ops (12 XP) (Minelayer, Engineer, Chain of Command) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 2 1 1 HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) MORLOCK Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 6) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Also I felt free to change your Spec-Ops a bit, since they felt more tactical fitted for me afterwards
Interesting, never thought about Le Muet. He's certainly stronger in ARO than an intruder. The loss of the bandit and the intruder (for the second list) does reduce my active turn options. I assume the gameplay would focus on putting everything through the Kriza for shooting or specialists for objectives? I've had good success with the specs with infiltrate, minelayer and engineer. I took the idea from WiseKensai's battlereports. He's a great utility piece for the price. In contrast for the lack of chain of command, if the Kriza is the lieutenant and he's dead... I'm probably in trouble anyways!
You should at least give some reasons why you think so. Perhaps it's your meta that makes them bad, perhaps it's because you don't use them efficiently, perhaps it's because they have some kind of niche and you try to use them outside their role. For example, sin eaters are pure ARO miniatures, and as such, their main objective is not to kill your opponent, but to make him waste orders by trying to kill them / avoid them / use more orders to make the way (smoke, cautious ...)
One thing I like doing with my SpecOp as Nomads is using Holo-Projector LVL1 and minelayer. Place the Mine in a Place where you would put an Intruder Sniper and Use Holoprojector to deploy your SpecOp as One with different Equipment (No Minelayer). Your opponents will normaly stay clear of the Firelanes covered by the Mine or waste orders trying to remove it.
There are only two things in which a Sin-Eater is superior to a Reaktion Zond: 2 BS and Mimetsim. What he lacks: maneuverability, attack capability (as you pointed out), anything that prevents him from instantly dying if he's facing shock or viral ammunition. Also if the Sin-Eater is lucky enough to just fall unconcious one will need at least three orders to get him back to use safely (smoke/white noise coverage, healing, stand up). And well, for the price of one HMG Sin-Eater one would also get the TR-Remote and a Morlock. And in regards of the Gecko: it's basically an HI that can also be possessed (=null state) thus that makes it's additional STR kind of useless especially in scenarios like Aquisition. And he's even a better active turn Sniper due to his Forward Deployment. Also I'm not sure why the Zero would reduce your active turn options since this guy is another source for mines and in Transmission Matrix you'll be limited to hacking stuff as long as there are enemy hackers present (initially I was tempted to suggest you the Interventor Killer Hacker).
I think you underestimate the effect of mimetism on an ARO troop. Plus the sin eater can go prone. Not only you can find more cover thanks to that, but if he is behind a small cover (like a parapet, or a pipe), he will be in total cover when unconscious. You have a totally valid point of view, but these are different troops with different strength. You underestimate how big of an order sink a 3 wound armored model can be. Let them possess it, just how many orders will they use to perform that on a not so important miniature in your army ? All those orders you will just cancel with a single command token anyway. Let them reveal their hidden AHD so that you can kill them later (you are nomad, hacking is your game). Let them try to shoot them, that's as many orders they won't use toward objectives or your specialists. Ho and by the way, your gecko IS a specialist too :)
Then its mostly your problem. Reaktion Zond is good but be honest here, they're fragile as heck. Sin Eaters, as my experience goes, are rather hard to take down. Also about posessed Geckos, this only happened to me once (and its entirely my fault on opening up my sides to Infiltrator), and it was only happened on one order, and it cost my opponent his Nagas (killed by Carlotta), while my Gecko is exorcised in the end. The other time i got my Gecko panned, it took 3 worth of orders to taken her down (Tomcats fix her up in the end). After that most of my opponent think pulling shenanigans at Geckos doesn't even worth a risk.
That has been my experience. They're sort of an in-between where complicated tactics are usually a waste but they're still unpleasant to shoot at. I have found their added vulnerabilities to be far outweighed by their added durability.
All remotes are fragile as heck, they go KO fairly easy when faced with one among several options, unless they have Assisted Fire (in which case the enemy will think twice). However, the second KO level means they are reticent to leave the battlefield (forcing the enemy to use more orders or face the same problem later). Posessing Geckos, or any tag, is something that I see more as a tactic to force a Reset (thus losing the Suppresion Fire) than a viable strategy. Then again, it might work VERY well, as I've suffered more than once.
Well, its quite a rarity for me actually, maybe its because i have a tendency of getting them surrounded by KHD support with lots of remotes. Its like a bad habit :tearsofjoy:. Personally i wouldn't left my TAGs (or any of my unit) without support. There's no "rambo units" in my book, not even Su-Jian.
Interesting comments! I think I will stick with the gecko in list 1, I've had good success with using him. He doesn't necessarily kill a lot but is surprisingly tough to take down and I always feel like he was a good trade in points spent or numbers of orders consumed before he falls. I think it's maybe a perception thing? When you see a Jotum, you assign Jotum level of firepower towards it or plan to ignore it. When you see a Gecko, you deal with it like you would a taskmaster only to be surprised at that additional wound!
In regards of the Mimetism: any MSV spoils that always - which is quite common in my gaming meta. Thus I'm really fond with White Noise + Prowler/Kriza/Reaktion Zond trickery. But you're right: both, Sin-Eater and Reaktion Zond, have their own advantages. Only that the Sin-Eater's advantages don't fit to my play style. Also I'm well aware about the general capabilities of a TAG (being a specialist is none of them, the Pilot is the specialst) and that's why my usual approach to TAGs is to cover them in E/M shots/template rather than trying to go through their armour. Or I possess them (actually all the TAGs which I played during Season 8 were possessed TAGs). @Wildgit The remote might be fragile but it has to fail three ARM rolls in order to be killed and it is shock immune. Also it's mobile as hell and thus able to be used in a much more diverse role than a Sin-Eater. You just can't swich him into attack mode and move him across the table if you need him elsewere.
Geckos kill a lot if they position well but they are predictable units. They don't usually break through unless you have the Duo or your opponent is negligent. But that's true of most troops unless they have abilities to help them. The fact that they are dangerous enough if left alone makes them harder to ignore and that's most important.
