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Help with Onyx vs. ASS?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by silvertongue, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. silvertongue

    silvertongue Hacker retórico

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    So yeah... I'm a crappy player. Let's say that upfront. I tend to lose every time I play Infinity. I don't really care, as long as my opponent has to sweat it, even if just a little.

    I've only just started playing Onyx, and had a game vs. a friend yesterday. Scenario 3 from the main book (supremacy, I think it's called). My list was Bit+Kiss, Umbra hacker, Core Nexus hacker lt+4 Unidrones (sniper, K1 with tinbot A, forward observer and basic carbine), E-Drone, Obsidon+slave drone, Noctifer Missile launcher, Fraacta boarding shotgun and Maakrep combi.

    His was Atalanta, Phoenix + 2 Myrmidons, Machaon + Myrmidon + Myrm Officer, Teucer and Achilles.

    And he steamrolled me. I mean, I know I'm not a really good player, but I think I did things well. It's just that Achilles is a beast even in reactive turn, and kept killing everything with which I shot him. Killed the Noctifer just as it shot him, butchered my Unidrons... And also Atalanta was kind of a PITA throughout the (very, very short) game.

    Soooo... Seeing as we don't have that many MSVs and there are not so many hackable profiles in a Myrmidon-heavy ASS list... Should I turn to just plain firepower? Xeodrones w/ Samaritan, Overdrones, a Sphinx?

    To make things worse, my boyfriend just bought the 300pts ASS box.

    Please, oh, great Overminds... Lend me a hand? Claw? whatevs?
     
    Wolf likes this.
  2. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I’m not the best player myself Silvertongue, and my strategies are hardly to be recommended, but I can say with assurance that the most satisfying way to deal with an Achilles list is as follows:

    Just before you start the game, say loudly and in an-apparently helpful tone to all within earshot “Oh, did you forget to deploy these?” whilst ostentatiously presenting your oppoment with a packet of baby Dutch cheese wheels.

    466301966.jpg

    They might still beat you, but you’ll FEEL better about losing. :grin:
     
    #2 Wolf, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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  3. silvertongue

    silvertongue Hacker retórico

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    Yeah, his lists are always a little bit on the cheese side... Not a complete power gamer, but close enough. I might do that ^^
     
  4. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    This is an amazing title/avatar post combo.


    I'll write a detailed post up later buddy. But generally speaking I brute force it, Rodoks are great for shitting templates and mines, Ikadrons for flamethrowers etc.
     
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  5. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Glad I'm not the only one who had a cheap chuckle! :joy:
     
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  6. yojamesbo

    yojamesbo deep-fried chicken connoisseur

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    From a fellow OCF player...

    1) Demand to play a 300 point game of something stabby: Annihilation, Decapitation, etc..

    2) Play this list:

    [​IMG] Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SPHINX Spitfire, 2 Heavy Flamethrowers / EXP CCW. (2 | 106)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SCINDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] UNIDRON K1 Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] UMBRA SAMARITAN (EI Assault Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Goodnight) Plasma Carbine, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Vorpal CC Weapon. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    3) Save the Sphinx for your reserve model. Use Hidden Deployment and put him on the bleeding edge of your DZ wherever he'll have the clearest shot straight forward into your opponent's DZ.

    4) If you have turn 1, rambo the Sphinx and set everything on fire. Everything. ODD, what? Move as efficiently as possible and avoid detours, and remember that you can vault low scenery and Climbing Plus your way over anything larger. Make sure you use your second to last order to get the Sphinx in cover (preferably with its back to the wall, but that's not strictly necessary); and use your last order to drop it into suppressive fire.

    Your Sphinx will probably not survive for a second turn. That's to be expected. The goal is to get some mileage out of it and then force your opponent to go deal with it on their turn.

    5) If you have turn 2, hunker down as far back as you can and turtle, don't let him have line of sight to anything. Leave the linked Unidron Plasma Sniper and the Q-Drone out as ARO pieces, preferably covering each other as well as the board (in fact, you should deploy like this even if you have turn 1).

    Then wait, see what happens, you probably lose 2 orders, tops.

    Next, see point (4), supra.

    6) If he runs a Hacker, just avoid it (and then use Kernau to explode it later).

    Other things in that list: the Samaritan should hang around your DZ out of sight. You can activate him later to deal with anything that gets too close; importantly, he can give Achilles a hard time thanks to his maneuverability, AHD, and monofilament. Avoid shooting/CC'ing FTF with the big fat Greek.

    Your Nexus LT should be deployed up on a roof, prone, out of harm's way. Keep him near the Q-Drone if you can, because if that thing survives, you'll want to buff it on Turn 2.

    Make sure to remember that your Unidrons have multiple levels of Unconscious, and can go Dogged.

    You may not win every time, but I promise you the result will be more interesting than just eating an Achilles to the face. :-)
     
    #6 yojamesbo, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
  7. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Big shout out to my boy the E-Drone, with Bit or Kerr-Nau, you can easily break every fireteam he has by using Pitcher -> Exile. I REALLY recommend it before you take the Onyx sledgehammer to their troops.
     
  8. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Guys, guys, guys!

    He had an unidron team!

    Mate, plasma fire will punk Achille's ass down hard. Give your plasma sniper assisted fire with one of your hackers and wail on his blonde butt like he's been a naughty boy.

    Seriously, though, with a Plasma sniper on full link plus assisted fire you're at 11+6 - 6 from his ODD, and he fires back at you at -6 if you're in cover and out of spitfire range. You have 3 shots and he has 1, and every time you land a blow he has to take 2 saves without cover bonus because template. That's brutal. That combo should kill him in 2-3 volleys. Less if you roll well.

    After that, I second everything that was said up here: use the pitcher to drop repeaters around corners and then Exile ARO to break his teams while also isolating a pesky model. You can also flush myrmidons with the sphinx, but my personal experience with tags versus myrmidons has usually involved my tag getting butchered, so I don't recomend that :D
     
  9. yojamesbo

    yojamesbo deep-fried chicken connoisseur

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    You're assuming he gives you the ability to take the shot (the Golden Boy is only S2 with 6-4 MOV), and that if he does, he won't just Dodge out of the way on a 15 or less. You might get one shot, but a good player won't give you much more than that (though if he does, take it!).

    You're absolutely right though that the PSR is a powerful tool!

    Related: If Teucer and Atalanta are an ARO problem, you can reliably outshoot them with a PSR Unidron in a 5-man team in your Active Turn, especially if you use a Hacker to drop assisted fire on the PSR first.

    Don't get too close! ;-)
     
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  10. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I so know I'm in the right part of the forum with comments like that. :grin:
     
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  11. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Dodge is still an FTF roll, and three dice at 11 vs one at 15 is pretty better than him firing 4 dice at 15 and you only getting 2 at 11 anyways. Besides, if he dodges that means he won't be shooting at your unidron link, and if he goes out of LOS you're free to cap objectives or kill other stuff. Either way it's a win.

    My point stands: hammering Achilles' pretty face with a plasma sniper can work :D
     
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  12. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    [redacted for falling below my own amusement threshold]
     
    #12 Wolf, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
  13. silvertongue

    silvertongue Hacker retórico

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    Oh wow, the best joke I've ever made in these forums and it was completely involuntary, haha.

    Thank you all very much for the advice! I will try everything you said and I'm sure I will improve. I'll get back to you with my (hopefully less pathetic) results!

    ^^
     
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  14. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    oh shit, I just realized another point I don't think anyone else mentioned here:

    About boytoy Teucer and tsundere Atalanta: They both have MSV2, umbra legate hackers have access to this nifty little program called White Noise, that drops a smoke template sized ball of disruptive net that gives MSV2 a -6 to fire through it.

    So yeah, use that, and now THEY are the ones taking a -6 to hit!
     
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  15. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    ^ Don't forget Kerr-Nau has WN too, he can set up his own murder clouds from behind a fireteam.

    Godspeed young nexus operative.
     
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  16. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    While I don't CA I do play factions with tight MSV options and my go to for ASS shenanigans is always fire. Those 9pt Ikadrons? Even if they don't wound whatever they're shooting at, they'll still burn off that ODD and even something like Achilles becomes far less scary once their fancy toys are toast.
     
  17. Plex

    Plex Umbra Solitudinarian

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    I'm hesitant to use fire to solve the Phalanx's ODD puzzle. Anything with ODD is at a minimum 65% chance to just dodge it.

    I mean, if that's all you've got, by all means fire away.

    Getting past Phoenix on a relatively open table without smoke is quite a challenge. Even a Maakrep HMG is kind of a crapshoot solution. Maybe try a Fraacta shottie.

    Achilles? Try to deplete his order pool I guess.
     
  18. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Fair, but in the case of the ikadron, if they opt to dodge, you've still got a living ikadron and if you've positioned things right now Achilles is in range of a repeater. Myrms themselves aren't super vulnerable to repeaters, but the links can be broken with the Exile program or you can use spotlight to try and mitigate some of that ODD with the targeted state.

    Additionally, if the Ikadron is still up during their active turn, they're going to need to spend at least 1 order doing something to keep it from flaming anything that walks past it on top of whatever hacking aros you want to throw out.

    It's certainly not a perfect solution and is much less effective against something that hangs out in the backfield life Phoenix.
     
  19. yojamesbo

    yojamesbo deep-fried chicken connoisseur

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    If you hit them from out of their LOF, they eat a -3 to those dodge rolls. And as @ambisinister observes, leaving a flamer pointed at them forces your opponent to choose whether to not activate the unit(s), voluntarily take the hit in order to attack, or risk more dodge rolls getting away from the thing.
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Step 1: get 2 Ikadrons (the blisters have 1 ikadron and 1 imetron, allowing you to troll the ASS with a "look, my AI Beacons are REAL models!) and be really really sure of their flamethrower's range (21cm), remember they have guns (the basic myrmidon does, also...) and a Flash Pulse.

    Step 2: Remember, Kerr Nau and the Legates H+ can deploy White Noise. Use that to make sure enemy MSV won't be raising their heads during your active turn.

    Step 3: make sure that, if you roll at -9 (ODD+cover) you can instead place a mine or use a template weapon. A Fraacta is to expensive to suicide, but a nanopulser doesn't roll, and the Myrmidons have ARM values of 2-3.
    A Malignos who ARO's Achilles with a Monofilament mine is so sweet... and the normal ones are Shock, so only Hector, Achilles and Ajax are safe from a one-hit kill.

    Step 4: remove your preconceptions. A lot of people claim the Noctifer is best used in reactive turn with the missile launcher. I prefer to thin of him as a crystal Sphinx, so pick the Spitfire and go nuts.

    Step 5: the SP players tend to not bring engineers, or if they do they use a Thorakite for classifieds. IMM Achiles! If you manage to ARO him with Kiss' Adhesive launcher, great, but an Oblivion can also do wonders.

    Step 6: remember, plasma weapons use template, so they ignore the +3 to ARM cover grants to the receiving model(s)...

    Also, the Rodoks are good at hunkering down and rain firepower. BS 12 +3 (link) +3 (range) mean you have a 50% hit chance in a distance equal that half of a gaming table, with Burst 5, while imposing a -6 to the enemy's returning fire (Mimetism and cover), and remember the ASS doesn't get 5 man fireteams!

    As for his list, damn it! He didn't even had Sixth Sense due to link size! Surprise Shot him to pieces with Bit or Kerr-Nau!!! XD
     
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