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Help me win IP with Tohaa :-D

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by LaughinGod, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree that the Draal isnt a Sukeul replacement, imo its a Sakiel upgrade.
    If you can live with the shorter range band you could morph your Sakiels into a Draal and Kamael.
     
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  2. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    Nope, it's not a Sukeul replacement, but it is a really good ofensive piece
     
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  3. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    While the Draal is not as good as a shooter as the Sukeul is on average, a linked Draal is the best anti-fireteam tool in the game (well, second best, a Heavy Flamethrower teamplate is brutal). It also carries a better toolset: all its profiles are specialist and carry D-charges, two out of three come with Mines, they start closer to the center of the table....
     
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  4. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    Needs more makauls
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I'll say this, if you were ever stuck in an 'evil doppleganger' situation we definately know what question to ask you that the real borings would always answer one particular way :P
     
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  6. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    Ok, another list I was thinking about. This one is low SWC, but I think it has enought firepower.
    Tohaa
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Stratuscloud) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA SERVANT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    2.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    Triads are as displayed, first 3 on the list are first triad and so on.
    EDIT: I would switch first Sukeul and Draal, so Sukeul Triad is full stealth.
     
    #26 LaughinGod, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  7. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    How does this list stop me from waltzing up the table against you if I go first?

    What does this list shoot with if the Sukeul dies?
     
  8. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    Well for starters, you have to win ftf roll. And there are many missions people will prefer to go second. I built this list to go first. There are 2 minelayers ( Clipso and SpecOps ), there is Taagma that can pretend to be LeMuet/Nikoul/whatever. And with Symbiomates I can leave stuff open relatively safely. Also, Kriigel doesn't need LoF for Eraser, him and linked HFT are nice detterent for enemy to go too far IMO.

    Edit: I could replace 1 Kauuri with Liberto Minelayer and lose servant to take Beyonce.
    Tohaa
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2
    KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Stratuscloud) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 13)
    CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #28 LaughinGod, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Sure, but those missions aren’t in the Interplanetario this year, apart from maybe Frostbyte.
     
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  10. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    There's a bit of an argument for hunting party too, but yeah, I broadly agree. First turn will be heavily contested in most Interplanetario scenarios.
     
  11. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    That new list still doesn't project any threat beyond 20 inches up the table on turn one it you don't go first. How does it prevent me from hitting all three buttons in Supplies or Unmasking on the first turn?
     
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  12. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    Ok, how would you change it? Don't just critique, give suggestions.
    Edit: to answer the question, 2 HD Clipsos, 2 mines, and just rest of my army I can probably position to defend at least some of the objectives. It's not like mid section of the map is walled off with no LoF from my side lol.
     
    #32 LaughinGod, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
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  13. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I think your lists are very light on fire power now that the ML isn't in them. For a list with 2.5 swc spare I would be expecting to see more K1 or viral to explain the deficit.
    Interplanetario has a large number of table provided by atendees, from experience playing on them and having seen photos from last year some are very open, others have table wide visibility mods. I would really be looking to take some shootier msv in your list.
    [​IMG]

    Realistically if the Taagma is pretending to be an aro piece (it cant pretent to be in sapper state) somebody is likely to shoot it with something suitably dangerous and it just dies.

    Have you considered reshuffling one of your triads out into group 2 and move more of your static pieces into group 1? Its a playstyle preference but if you are happy not running ten regular orders in group 1 I find that you can then get a lot of work from a triad with 5ish orders in your second group.
    Tohaa
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Stratuscloud) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 13)
    CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    To be perfectly honest I think the lists so far have been overly invested in shiny spiral corps toys. I think only running one and then using older profiles would serve you better.
     
  14. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    @spears tbh I am considering running Draal only for Dazer as it seems useful in multiple mission to have. Taagma, I think this is decent unit, Counterintelligence helps if I go second, but I think Breaker Combi and Nanopulsar with Holoprojector can have some potential in confusing opponents. Kriigel I dunno, without him I could live but I am unsure what could I replace him with in this price range, perhaps Spitfire Sakiel ?
     
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  15. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    @LaughingGod, I recommend you to try running Taagma as a linked Gao-Rael Sniper covering some obscure fire lane. Of course, if you position it so that your opponent can kill it with their best shooter, you're playing it wrong. It should cover those alternative lanes where opponent hopes to use their Mutts, Bulleteer and other pieces that can actually be countered by Gao-Rael.
    During my last game, it tricked my opponent so much that he was forced to go circles for two turns in order to avoid being shot by a 16pts troop armed with a Combi. She's really good, especially since she grants Counterintelligence.
     
  16. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    I have failed you guys, didn't win IP with Tohaa :-D
    I went 3-3 on the IP.
    As this was my first tournament outside my country I am fairly satisfied with my results.
    Will probably do a detailed write up once I am back home.
     
  17. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Looking forward to your write up
     
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  18. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    You have not won the Interplanetary but you have won my like!

    Keep on BroHaa!
     
  19. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    I have some time so I will post some general Info about the tournament. These were my lists, I was changing stuff until last moment. In the end I just submitted lists as they were at that moment ( as it was almost deadline )
    List A──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4 DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) SAKIEL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13) SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Stratuscloud) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 13) CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12) TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5 SWC | 299 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
    List B──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4 SUKEUL Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13) GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33) TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) KAMAEL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Minelayer, Doctor, Engineer, Stratuscloud) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife, D-Charges. (0 | 13) CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21) SAKIEL Lieutenant Viral Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12) LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
    About the lists, my hero was Liberto as he basically always traded up 3 or more times his points ( except in 1 mission ). Sukeul with K1 was critted in several games so she was my unlucky girl.
    All my opponents were nice and polite, I think all but 1 placed higher than me in the final standings.
    Terrains were mostly good looking, but there were some really low effort ones that I saw in the last year IP pics. Hopefully they will replace them for the next years tournament.
    Venue had poor air condition and it wasn't even that hot outside. Light was also terrible, one day it was like playing in the basement lit with a torch. This affected pace of the games so there were some rush decisions made just to make it to the round 3. Having extra 15-30 minutes for games would really help.
    I also heavily disliked that we were basically kicked from the venue each afternoon because it was siesta time. I don't think any tournament outside Spain kicks out their players for 2,5 hours each afternoon. Place I rented was 25 minutes away by foot, so each day I had to walk back and forth 2 times carrying all my stuff. Didn't plan on that.
    I was with my girlfriend and I was afraid she would be bored there while I play, but there were lots of side activities which she participated in and she had good time. Someone even tought her Aristeia, so I had to buy a box for us to play home. I also got to try Defiance and got some free minis from that and Warcor meeting. Each game also earned you coins you could spend on blisters, boxes or some other stuff depending on how many you won ( you get 5 for each round + 5 if you win ). I was at the end of the line to pick stuff, so unsurprisingly all the boxes that were left were Zhayedan :-D
     
  20. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
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    Ok, first mission I played against SirNando JSA ( he finished top 10 in Pulpi I believe ). Table heavily favored his list that had Domaru+2xKarakuri Haris, Keisotsu + Kempeitai link, Yojimbo and hidden Ninja. Table had the middle section cut off from deployment zone by tall walls, and it was basically impossible to shoot at ranges over 24 inch. All the walls had saturation zone if I remember correctly. I chose my list B because I knew he will get supplies with Karakuri in his first turn ( he won the roll and chose to play first ) that are basically armor 6 against everything and list B had higher DMG weapons.
    I don't remember this game well, so please forgive me for this rather shitty battle report.
    In his first turn he went on to take 2 supplies with Karakuri. At the end of the turn he just positioned them in cover. Worth mentioning is that I didn't realize I have LoF to his haris thru some gate with my Gao-Rael Spitfire. So I basically didn't ARO twice with him.
    In my turn I went and killed his Keisotsu ML with my Sukeul ML, shot his Yojimbo who smoked, revealed my Clipso to shoot at his Karakuri and died, so basically a whole lot of nothing. Think I managed one wound on one Karakuri.
    In his second turn he suicide Nanopulsar with Yojimbo into my triad. Killed entire triad of 2 makauls and 1 Sukeul ML ( who lost symbiomate to some crit from Karakuri earlier I think ). I killed Yojimbo in turn with Makaul HFT. Rest of the turn he just moved his karakuris back toward his deployment with supplies. In my turn I killed one Karakuri with Gao-Rael and took his supply. Tried to do something with my second HD Clipso, but she died. I managed to do one wound on second Karakuri, I think with Gao-Rael and that was the end of my turn. I think my HMG Sukeul also died in this turn somehow.
    Now at this point I misheard announcer and thought she said we have 10 minutes left. I told to my opponent we should end the game here because we wouldn't both have time to play our last turn. He said ok, but then we realized we have 30 minutes, not 10. He still offered me to end the game here and I declined. Personally it would be good for me to end it here, but realistically I knew I will lose if he gets to play turn 3 and it seemed unfair to end it.
    So, onto his turn 3 he spent some orders on Keisotsu link that was behind my Gao-Rael triad ( Gao Rael, Taagma and SpecOps ), he lost 1 or 2 Keisotsu trying to kill them and failed. Then he activated his Kempeitai that was on top of the wall and moved prone towards my Triad. Then he stood up and shot them with Boarding Shotgun. Naturally template hit all 3 of them. We forgot to apply Saturation zone in all the rolls that involved Kempeitai, but whatever. He killed my Gao Rael who carried my supply. Then he went into CC with Domaru on the other side and killed 1 Makaul from HMG Sukeul link and tried to kill second one but he passed his rolls. He also revealed Ninja and tried to take third supply but failed with 3 rolls to open it. In my turn I tried to kill Kempeitai on the wall and take supply from the ground. I had 6 orders at this point. Failed miserably.
    At the end 7-1 score for him I only got secure HVT.
    As you can see I can't remember how my Sukeul HMG died and what happened to my Liberto ( I think I went with him to clear CrazyKoala from Yojimbo ).
    My opponent was really nice and game was intense and fun for me.
    Some pics, my gf took these with phone so not the best sadly.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]