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HELP ME PLEASE, CHA IS COMING FOR ME!

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by RasPuto, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    Hi friends,

    in the next week I'll face one of the most infamous lists here in Italy, played by a friend of mine. He's a pretty good player and he challenged me with his Caledonia.

    We'll be playing Engineering Deck.

    This is his generic list:

    HELP ME PLEASE
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    HIGHLANDER GREY AP HMG, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 22)
    S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 21)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    HIGHLANDER GREY AP HMG, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 21)
    S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 22)
    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    When it comes to tournament environment, he usually drops the Warcor and one Volunteer or changes the profile of the Caterans to make a S.A.S. FO and/or a Volunteer Paramedic and so on, to maximize his options for scoring scenario.

    Anyway, two possible cores, 7 Camo Markers, 5 Infiltration pieces (2 of them with Grenades, for some SpecFire fun), 3 Smokes, 3 long AROs.

    Time after time, in my LGS has grown the belief that this list is almost unbeatable, even with the declared LT. So here I am: I can choose between USARF and TAK to face this monster.
    What are your advises?
    I'm not asking for the perfect list, as he's a veteran player and I'm pretty much a noob, but I'd like to kick some asses, as I did already against his Aleph.

    I'm trying to build a list for both sectorials, I will add them in the comments in these days.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Aside from the Highlanders there's nothing really much there that brings punch. The caterans are ok but nothing too dramatic.
    I'd be tempted to play the midfield with a heavy deployables game. TAK are good. Take sensor (devildogs or antipode/k9) to help with those SAS and try and punish him first turn. Outstanding those volunteer hordes shouldnt be too hard as that's a lot of bodies to sit in the DZ. Work the flanks and work the angles to get onto those volunteers to thin them out. The Grey's are a lot less potent without the link team bonuses.
    Rambo with dog warriors is a solid option for thinning out the hordes too, you lose the dogwarrrior to chain rifles but will likely take large chunks of his orders down too
     
    RasPuto likes this.
  3. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Use smoke. Lacking MSV2 this list (and Ariadna in general) has no counter to smoke.
    An AD unit with even a rifle will make short work of them cheerleaders. Just shoot them out of CR range, that is roughly out of 10'.
    I do not see the 3 long ARO pieces. There is nothing in this list that could have a chance against a good old fashioned HMG salvo in your active turn. (Not that any unit in the whole game had a good chance against two HMG Spetsnaz…)
    I hope, this helps.
     
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  4. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    Long AROs are Flash Pulse from Warcor and the Caterans.

    Anyway, you're goddamn right!
     
  5. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    MIKE ALPHA ROMEO ALPHA
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    ROSIE Light Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    AIRBORNE RANGER (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun / Pistol, AP CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 21)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2
    FOXTROT Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    FOXTROT Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    MARAUDER Molotok / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    MARAUDER Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    MARAUDER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    This is the USARF list I've tinkering on lately.

    4 Specialists deployed way up the table and up to 9 Infiltration models to go hard if I win the first turn. Some templates in the form of HFTs to catch multiple cheap and fragile models. An aggressive Haris and a defensive core, to face different situations and have way more options. Not enough space for Devil Dogs, but I'll try to make space for them, as Sensor and Smoke would be pretty useful in this match-up.
     
    #5 RasPuto, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  6. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    VODKA AND GUTS
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
    DOG-WARRIOR 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CCW. (0 | 29)
    DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    This is the TAK one.

    6 Specialists deployed at the 12" line, but two of them have an extra order and Smoke for a safer and faster run to objectives. 3 Minelayers to control the space around the Armory and a Sensor able to enter inside of it, to safely discover his camos and make him waste order just to get out of his ZoC to get back to camo. A couple of models outside FT, non-Markers, non-REM, non-Impetuous, to connect the HVT. A super aggressive FT to threat everything in his list and 3 Smoke to control AROs.

    Another good option would be a Scout FO in place of the Dog Warrior and downgrading one of the Line Kazak FO to a plain one, just to avoid 3 Irregulars in the same group and to have better deploying Specialist.
     
    #6 RasPuto, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  7. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    First off, the list is very beatable. If this list dominates your meta that hard, I'd take that as an indication that your tables might be too dense rather than anything else. Nothing in that list has the upper hand in a long range shootout with the big guns TAK can bring and once the Highlanders are down, this list lacks both smoke and high burst weapons to attack strong ARO units.

    I came up against pretty much the exact list concept in the last German Championship and took a major victory with my TAK. My advice would be to include a Frontovik HRL to get another big gun in the core link and to have a sixth member of the link to be able to reform at full strenght if someone goes down. I'd probably save the points on the Streloks, that amount of minelayers seems a bit excessive and brings diminishing returns, especially against such a horde list.
     
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  8. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    I don't honestly know. Never played against it yet (he played OSS last game).

    Anyway, what do you mean with "diminishing returns"?

    Is it possible to see your list?
     
  9. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    The game is almost one year ago, so I'm not sure if I would run the list exactly like this again:

    TAK German Championship 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    ASSAULT PACK . (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10)
    [​IMG] x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    VASSILY Lieutenant (Forward Observer) T2 Marksman Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35)
    TANKHUNTER (Chain of Command) AP Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Diminishing returns: The first mine can be put in a position where you really don't want your opponent to go, the second mine goes to the second best place and so on. With each additional mine the game value decreases a bit.
     
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  10. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    Your list is nice! I'm always a fan of Vassily, probably wouldn't play a Tankhunter CoC but it's the only chance to play him aggressively.

    Assault Pack is for me to difficult to play, usually they die horribly, that's why I prefer the K9, way more reliable.