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Help and Advice for a list against Spiral Corps

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Car0nt3, Feb 27, 2020.

  1. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    Hi, beautiful community.
    I'm here bothering you again seeking you precious help because seems my last major Victory got me in a mess with some Spiral corps. :sweat_smile:

    For my next league turn, I'll be against a very skilled player that has a really good spiral corps army.

    Now, I know completely nothing about tohaa ..so I'm doing some research.
    From what I've read here and there, I just come up with this list (built as well with your previous advice in mind).

    The mission will be "Acquisition" with the possibility to insert a 12xp spec-ops. (Really didn't get how it works)

    From your point of view guys, could be work? Do you see any particular issues?
    Please help me :heart: LY all.

    Going to attach the list:

    Lista della speranza──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 OVERDRON 2 Heavy Rocket Launchers / . (2 | 61) [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0) UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43) R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) NEXUS Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
    #1 Car0nt3, Feb 27, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  2. Spauracchio

    Spauracchio Member

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    Hi, Spiral Corps is a very strong army, with great defense (look out for the Taagma Snipers: MSV2 Viral SR that start holoprojected, so you don't know who is really who) and great offense. Some of their strongest troopers have symbio-armor, meaning that they have 2 wounds and after taking the first one, their profile changes: this makes them particularly sturdy. They can't be hacked (except for a single trooper, that also has BTS 9) but, on the other side, can't really hack too. They have their own version of "hacking" that works against living things, so try to stay out of 8 inches of their Kriigel Agents with your non-REM troops.

    As for your list, I tried to change it the least. I don't like Umbras at all: very expensive but extremely fragile and terrible shooters. Also, if you want to play the Overdron, I'd use it as your strong active piece: go for the HRMC (one of the strongest multi-dice offensive weapons) instead of the RL (nice ARO weapon but not great for the offense). Unidron are a nice sturdy link, I prefer to play them as a strong ARO so I've put in the ML. You can also use the Q-Drone as both an ARO piece and an offensive piece and you also have the Noctifer for ARO.

    Lista della speranza
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    OVERDRON Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / . (2 | 78)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    NEXUS Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    UNIDRON Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Car0nt3 likes this.
  3. Sharrankar

    Sharrankar Active Member

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    Spiral is indeed strong, I kinda struggle with them with Onyx as well, but nothing is unbeatable lol
    The msv sniper will probably be in a haris linkteam, so watch out for such a team - taking that into consideration, it should be easy to determine where he is and wreck turn 1 with the overdron (he can't be seen turn 1 by msv troops thanks to his albedo)

    A few changes I'd make:
    Onyx Contact Force──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 OVERDRON Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / . (2 | 78) [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0) NEXUS Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) UNIDRON Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) NEXUS (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Doctor, Engineer, EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Spec ops is confusing, but imo, what works best for onyx is the good ol doctor engineer hacker +1 wip lol
    Saves you points for your hacker LT and doc worm, which can be put somewhere else
    Kerr-Nau needs to be in the same group as the link team, he's a vital part of it
    Q-drone is a really good active turn piece, with assisted fire form the spec ops it can demolish certain non-msv threats (and if it inevitably goes down, you'll prolly have a slave drone nearby to revive it) - I usually let mine watch just a small lane lane in my opponents turn and roam around in my active turn

    Noctifer has to be in group 2, he's an aro piece, and in to camo on top of that, meaning he 1. will go down eventually 2. doesn't generate his order at the beginning of the game, until he pops out and murders everything or whiffs everything lol

    As stated above, the link team should be an aro link team, not exactly active one - I had some spare points and put 3 FOs in there, not exactly the best choice, but couldn't find any other way to spend points lol

    That's the changes I'd make - let others express their opinions as well tho!
     
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  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I've faced Spiral a few times, and their ARO game is boss. Lots of inexpensive pieces that can really ruin your day if you don't deal with them, and if you do deal with them you just spent orders yet took nothing from your opponent.

    Acquisition is a mission where going second is better, so you need your own ARO pieces to be sure your can survive an active push by your enemy. And you need a liason oficer and/or resilient data tracker to get the Console on the last turn. Your list has neither of those :/

    So, I would actually shift things around a lot for this list. Like this:

    Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    XEODRON Red Fury, Blitzen / Heavy Pistol. (1 | 63)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    UNIDRON K1 Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 17)
    UNIDRON Plasma Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 24)
    UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    MALIGNOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    NEXUS (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:15, Doctor, Engineer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Xeodron is your Data Tracker, Malignos is the Liason officer. If you have second turn all you have to do is make sure either of them survives till the end of the game and you pretty much cinch the victory. If you have first turn, then you push forward and drop them in supressive fire on your 3rd turn to make it harder for your opponent to take them out.

    Plasma snipers are good both on the active and reactive turn, as they can put out templates that deal 2 wounds each, which will make even those symbiont armor blokes feel a little uncomfortable (Nobody likes rolling 2 saves every time they take a hit, no matter how well protected they are). And in your active turn you can grind them to dust with the Xeodron and a buffed up spitfire.

    I don't like the Overdron for this mission because of how pitiful weak the overdron is at short range.

    Good luck out there mates.
     
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  5. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    The mission, I'd agree... though with the HRMC in suppressive is decent at short range. I think the bigger thing with the Overdron is the Taagma counter. Hold the Overdron back and watch them squirm because they left "somerandomlinetroop" on a roof standing.

    Will only work once, sure, but hey it's fun.
     
  6. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    Thanks a lot for all your precious advice.
    I'm Agree with most of them, I've actually already done other 3 lists meanwhile I was waiting for someone's reply.
    What I'm not sure of, is about symbiomate and symbioarmour. I was looking forward to something like the heavy rocket launcher because I've read around that as they are types of equipment are sensitive to the fire, and except for light and heavy flame throwers, the only weapon at long range able to have fire ammunition is the HRL.
    However, I can understand the usefulness of HRMC (as I'm really never been a very lucky player I know the importance of multiple dices shot) ..but I'm in doubt about the effectiveness of the AP (as SC don't suffer shock effects) compare to the fire ones.
    I like the @Sharrankar Idea about the Nexus spec-ops hacker. I was thinking indeed to a solution for a less expensive hacker instead of the Umbra, which I love, but spend 40pt just for a hacker to boost my REMs looks like, indeed, a bad idea. (the only a main reason why I've inserted a hacker in my list is just only to have the assisted fire for mainly the Q-drone and eventually other REM).

    Thanks @DaRedOne
    I'm still struggling a bit to remember and use the characters required for the mission since as a noob, which I am, I really didn't play never in a real tournament so I didn't acquire the habit to think of those details.

    What are exactly the best characteristics that liason officer and datatracker must possess, in your opinion?
    And what makes a Xeodron a better choice over the Overdron?
     
  7. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Alright, I'll bite.

    Liaison officer MUST be a Forward Observer and CAN NOT be a REM. This means Onyx only has ONE option here: The Malignos. However, as a TO Camo, WIP14, BS12 trooper with Mines, he is not a bad choice. Just remember he CAN NOT be in hidden deployment, but he CAN be in marker state as your Liason officer.
    The sole function of the Liasion officer is to survive until turn 3 and make a roll. He needs to be out of your Deployment zone, and if he is capturing the central console at the end of the game he nets you another 4 points. So basically the only thing you need to do with the Malignos is survive until the end of the game, then spend one order on him to move to the console (he has Infiltration, so you can/should start as close as possible to the console without sacrificing your safety).
    I've done this before with a Shrouded and it is easy to make this strategy work. The shrouded has regular camo instead of TO, but that extra layer of protection is pretty good.

    Now, Data Tracker is a different beast. Like the Liason officer, your Data tracker needs to stay alive until the end of the game. And if they are the one capturing the console, you score an extra 2 points, for a total of 5 if you control the console with your Data Tracker. Note that you can only score for the Data Tracker OR the Liaison Officer, so you will either score 4 points with the Officer, or 5 with the Data Tracker. It's still a good idea to keep your officer alive until the end of the game, because then he can roll a WIP check and if he passes he scores another 1 point.

    Like the Officer, the Data Tracker CAN NOT be a REM. Unlike the Officer, the Data Tracker CAN NOT be in marker state, ever. This means that you want sturdy models to be your data trackers, and the sturdier folks at Onyx are the Xeodron, Overdron, Sphinx and Suryat. Of all four, I'd say the Overdron is the worst option. Your Data Tracker will have to sit in the middle of the table defending a console, and the Overdron sucks big gurlanak balls at defending from close range attackers.

    "But Red! I can drop the Overdron into suppressive fire!" Yes, you can, and then your opponent is going to shove a warband up his ass. The Suryat, Sphinx and Xeodron all have ways of defending themselves up close (suryat and sphinx have flamers, Xeodron has heavy pistol), in case they're shifted from Suppressive Fire State. Overdron has NOTHING. The moment someone gets within 8 inches of your Overdron, it's as good as dead.

    (Okay, pause for hyperbole here. The Overdron is not going to go up in flames just because someone got close, but it does have way less options to defend itself up close than the other options)

    Additionally, because Acquisition is a mission that requires you to capture two antennas and one console in the middle of the table, you will do a lot of fighting in mid-short range. At that range the Red Fury is a lot more effective that any weapon the Overdron has. It's a matter of the right tools for the job, and I don't think the Overdron is a good tool for this mission.

    Notice I am talking only about the mission so far, and this is because that's one thing I think all newcomers should learn: This is your show, mate, your opponent is a supporting character. By that I mean that you should be focusing on what you need to do to win the mission, not to kick your opponent's teeth in. Sure, killing stuff is fun (and sometimes necessary), but it doesn't make you any closer to winning the game.
     
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  8. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

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    Many thanks @DaRedOne
    Everything has taken a lot of sense now.
    Yours is a really fine explanation, and guess l've got many aspects that was foggy to me before your post.

    I'll analyze the Matter and spend some time to pondering those words.
    It's been really, really helpful.

    Many thanks.
     
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