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Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Ataxia, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. Ataxia

    Ataxia New Member

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    Hi there.

    I'm a prospective new player to the game and think that Aleph might be an interesting faction to play. I've spent the past couple of days attempting to get a feeling for how to compose a balanced 300 point force as something to move towards.

    From what I've read the HMG based Dakini fireteam in the O.S.S can be quite potent and the Proxies appear to be considered an auto include. I've based the list around using the fireteam as the main focal point and bringing in the Garuda to flank when the opportunity presents. Initially I considered the Asuras, but I get the feeling that working from a less flashy base and adding her in later might be a better idea.

    The rest of the list has a CSU/Lamedh for cheerleading, Sophotect and Yudbot to hopefully keep the fire team running, what looks like a reasonably cheap lieutenant choice and a strong offensive hacker in the Dasyus.

    I guess I'm looking for critique on my initial impressions of what a useful list might look like. As I have no real world experience of playing the game it'd help immensely.

    Thanks,

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)
    DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 33)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    DASYU Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GARUDA Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30)
    SHUKRA Lieutenant (Strategos L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    PROXY Mk.1 Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  2. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Hey! Welcome! :)

    Your list is pretty good. I'd suggest only minor changes:
    • Garuda from HMG to Spitfire - Spitfire is for closer range, where Garudas usually operate
    • one of the CSU's to Boarding Shotgun - this one might be a great match for link, since it will provide you with a close-in weapon and you already have 2 better Specialists in Dakini Paramedics
    • I would also downgrade Dasyu to Forward Observer, mainly because it comes with mines, but also makes Dasyu easier to operate in midfield (since it becomes invulnerable to Hackers then)
    Now this would leave you with 4 points; one option to use them would be to upgrade CSU to Breaker Combi Rifle - it's an unusual weapon, but BTS is often lower than ARM and it halves it, so it can be great for punching above its weight.
    Another option is to get a WarCor for second group to flash pulse annoy everyone.

    In either case, it's only 3 points meaning you can keep the Dasyu KHD. :)

    You lose a KHD, which is a shame. Alternatively, you could downgrade the Dasyu all the way down to Naga KHD (which does bring Mines) and provides you with plenty of points to do upgrades elsewhere.

    Anyway, a few ideas there. :)
     
    #2 Nemo No Name, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
    DukeofEarl, Ataxia and Nenyx like this.
  3. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Nemo has already said many good things, so i would just like to add a thing.

    Your Lt is obvious. Well, it's kind of Aleph's way of life, so it's not a problem in itself. Just be aware of it and defend him well. Be careful with your deployment, especially if you play second. And even during the game, keep at least one troop in defense of the shukra just to be sure the opponent can't just land an AD and kill him.
     
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  4. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    I would downgrade the Dasyu to FO and replace the Garuda with Dart. She is just a way more solid Rambo piece, and if you are worried about her in the right place she is probably your best candidate for reserve piece.
     
    Ataxia likes this.
  5. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    May I recommend the WatchWolf Ten Point Plan for learning to play Infinity in general.

    1) Understand that very smart people often struggle with (often undiagnosed) learning difficulties. And since many (probably most) tabletop gamers are highly imaginative and exceedingly smart, it follows that many are also often struggling more than they themselves expect or realise. This may be you, it may well be your Infinity partner or mentor, or it might well be both of you. Be kind to one another, this game is hard to learn.

    1a) See (1) and note that whilst experienced gamers can be your greatest asset, they can also be pretty unhelpful too. Being smart doesn't mean we also know how to teach, and especially if we want to play the whole game, try out our latest shenanigans, and generally get our rocks off...

    2) Having to look up units' skills and weapons is time consuming and badly interrupts the flow of the game. You'll probably find that printing out hard copies of unit lists, weapons and hacking programmes on separate sheets is unexpectedly helpful - we have some lists and notes about how to use them at Watchwolf.net

    3) A lot of us here think Infinity is the best tabletop game you can play, but I have to say I think the learning curve is way steeper than for other games. So be kind to yourself, take it slow, and stay well below 200 points and a single battle group for as long as you possibly can.

    This might well be longer than experienced players will want, and they'll probably encourage you to play ITS missions with 300 points, but see (1) and (2) and appreciate that what's good for experienced players isn't necessarily good for you too.

    4) Regarding (2) and (3), we did teaching and progression games with just the Starter Sets (~ 170 points) last year, and Starter Box matches became a standard format in the play group. You can play most rulebook missions like this if you play 6 or 7 models, and add an extra Regular Order. You could suggest this to your play group and see what uptake you get.

    5) Keep a log of the Skills you've read about and feel you understand, and then tick them off when
    a) you've had experience of others playing them on you, and
    b) when you've experience of playing them yourself.

    Reading about say laying mines is very different from actually doing it in a game because reading is in your head, and learning is doing in reality - so you may think you know something but until you're actually doing it, you're not really learning it.

    6) Further Notes on Adult Education: if you're struggling to comprehend something and the other player retorts "Huh! Well, I already told you!" you should consider this a red flag that they are themselves struggling with their own learning difficulties as described in (1) and generally beware. The attitude is conceited, toxic and unfortunately very common.

    7) See (1) and find someone who is demonstrably less inclined to get their rocks off at your expense, and more inclined to put their own wishes aside for the sake of helping you learn. That might be a buddy at the same level, which is a great way to play and learn.

    If they're more experienced than you, consider rewarding them for their patience with beer/cola, pizza or suchlike to create a contract for your education. This keeps you both on point, and prevents the competitiveness escalating until your education is forgotten.

    8) See (5) and share this list with your new best teaching buddy; invite them to introduce new skills at appropriate moments, but only at your own learning speed. There's no telling how quickly you'll want to absorb new information, but you're the one who'll know that best.

    9) Very smart people respond well to being bought beer/cola and pizza. It says that right here, in my Watchwolf Teaching Notes :wink:

    10) (Aleph) When you start playing competitive games and your opponent becomes bitter and starts griping about ODD, make a point of staying in partial cover and really rubbing salt in their wounds by talking through the Ballistic Skill Modifier arithmetic with extra emphasis like "And that's MINUS SIX for ODD, plus another minus THREE for cover, so what's that ... oh, wow minus NINE, eh?" If they flip the table, storm out and you can hear them screaming down the road that's a technical win for Aleph. No seriously, we're here to help humankind whether they like it or not. It's tough love all the way.:smile:
     
    #5 Wolf, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  6. Ataxia

    Ataxia New Member

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    Thanks for the warm welcome :-).

    I am a bit curious about the actual effective difference between the Dasyus and the Naga hackers in how you use them. The Dasyus seems to be something you keep hidden until you can find something to attack; whilst the Naga can do a bit more with its mines. Have you tried both of them?

    Do you find that the KHD actually gets much use?

    I was thinking of keeping the Mk5 proxy and the none fireteam CSU back to cover the Lt. From what I've read the Mk5 could be a pretty reasonable counter for anything getting too close.

    Thanks :-D.
     
  7. Ataxia

    Ataxia New Member

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    That's a very entertaining and useful ten point plan; thank you :-D.

    I don't actually have a playgroup at the moment. I'm hoping to get a couple of friends involved and see if I can find any more experienced players in the local area. I just fancy getting into a wargame and this looks to be the most interesting one, so I'm going to be getting onto it alone really.

    I've never done any modelling and painting either, but that's an entirely different discussion ;-).
     
  8. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Hidden doesnt mean you get to pop it where you want to attack something, it means that in deployment you read the table and opponent well enough to know the exact position it needed to be hidden in.

    It depends on the opponent, sometimes its dead points, other times it shuts down the enemy.
     
  9. Ataxia

    Ataxia New Member

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    I should have said until something to attack walks past :)

    After reading all the fireteam rules I think the Dakini HMG/Deva Spitfire variant is really good value at 93 points. Wombat has a point that Dart seems to be an interesting option and I can't really let go of the Garuda for some reason; so I've attempted to squeeze them both into the list by dropping the MK5, second CSU and replacing the Dasyus with a Naga and re-equipping the Garuda with a Spitfire.

    I'm hoping that'll reduce the number of cheerleaders and increase the number of threats somewhat, as I can now pour orders from group 1 into either the fireteam/Dart/Naga or the Garuda, whereas before the MK5 would be limited to Group 2's order pool.

    This should mean that I can compose the list by purchasing:
    - Aleph starter set
    - Dakini HMG
    - Garuda
    - Proxy box
    - Rebots box
    - Sophotect box
    - CSU
    - Dart
    .. And proxying the Asuras as a Shukra. So more or less all models purchased would be on the board.

    If I start playing simple games with the starter set and introducing rules gradually I'll hopefully have some idea what I'm doing by the time I've picked up all the models for this list:

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)
    DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 33)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    GARUDA Tacbot Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)
    DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34)
    SHUKRA Lieutenant (Strategos L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    PROXY Mk.1 Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Thanks again for all of your advice :).
     
    DukeofEarl likes this.
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