1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Heckler Unit Profile

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Tom McTrouble, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    I'm quite curious about the red fury profile (even more than the jammer) : red fury + bs12 + mimetism + advance deployment in a very cheap profile looks very nice. On paper, it's a lot of potential to go hunting long range ARO pieces (including fireteam ML or MSR).

    I'm just starting Nomads so I'm curious about the more experienced Nomads players opinion on it.
     
    #81 Arkhos94, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    nazroth likes this.
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    4,887
    Achilles V2 reach levels, I'd say... possibly with the Multi Rifle profile (his BS15 would compensate the reach of the Red Fury... but he loses 1 burst, I think). Sure, Blondie is more expensive (about 3 times more...) but he also is more than three times more resilient (barring CRITICAL HIT!!!). No the same, but a way to have an idea of its reach.

    However, remember he will also have a single Surprise Attack... so maybe a little like the Intruder?
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,146
    Likes Received:
    9,651
    Quite true.

    Though to be honest, I'm surprised it's taken this long for Nomads to get a Jammer... stylisticly, it's very much a Nomad thing to use. I'm just kinda bummed that my current Nomads collection doesn't allow me to take them (I only have models that have Multiterrain or Zero Gee).
     
    Wyrmnax, sarf and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,529
    Likes Received:
    6,495
    I've been if the long standing opinion that there should be an ISO-1 and ISO-2 states (as per IMM).

    Jammer should cause ISO-1.

    Heckler does not change my opinion on that.

    Re: RF profile. It will be very similar to the Kamau HMG: the Kamau is more robust and durable, the Heckler gets Surprise Shot (once). Doubt it'll be particularly good at dealing with core links: should do a solid job of dealing with Haris'd Snipers, TR Bots or Sin-eaters.
     
    Wyrmnax likes this.
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    4,887
    Simply put, sinergy. Nomads always had a lot of that from their repeater net, and Vanilla uses to carry 2 Interventors there... Heck, even Corregidor preferred the Hacker or AHD (depending on the "platform trooper") to KHD until the bandit, and they already had glue guns, so it was more of a case of "they have enough tools to IMM/ISO enemies thanks to hacking".

    The Muttas simply have too many options in a very cheap package (no Cube? No problem, it's not like it's really worth it to heal them!), while the Heckler has a Combi with this, and a single panda. If he were to deploy near the midfield, then it would be OP, but as a FD1 I'd say it's not as much of a deterrant to enemy deployments.
     
    AdmiralJCJF and Wyrmnax like this.
  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    I think the Heckler is an excellent Jammer profile but I don't see myself using a B1 active turn weapon too much. Reactively? It's absolutely gold, and on a profile with a Fast Panda, Mimetism and a combi for suppression, it's going to be amazing at control.

    Vanilla Nomads already were arguably the most powerful control faction (Morans, Lunokhods, Zero Minelayers, Sin-Eaters etc) and this just makes them even better at it!
     
  7. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    445
    It reminds me more of the old Spitfire Raiden or the new Unit-9 profile, not really the Kamau (which will probably have it's equivalent in the Securitate anyways).

    Edit: or maybe Infirior Infiltration Bruant.
     
    #87 McNamara, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    sarf likes this.
  8. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    448
    2 of those means you have a a continous line of jamming from edge to edge before reaching your deployment zone. Also, for 2 orders you can have repeater coverage starting in the middle of the table.

    I do not think that the jammers will be as ridiculous as they are in Ghazi - you have less WIP on a much more expensive model that is not nearly as discardable. But still, it is a great profile.

    The BSG + E/Marat is also bastardly strong is it ever gets in range. It forces a "Choose - dodge against a ftf BSG or shoot and take the marat hit". Imagine putting any HI in that situation.

    Red Fury displaces the Spitfire Prowler. Prowler was already barely usable, being so expensive that it was almost stepping into TO Camo territory. And TO is *much* better than normal camo. Yes, it will take more orders to move up and can't recamo, but it is also 2/3rds of the price for the same offensive firepower.

    KHD I'm not sold yet. Zeroes and Bandits feel better on the role. Depends on what the mines do.
     
  9. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    192
    I agree with both of these assessments. I had somehow been reading E/Marat as E/Mauler. The Marat brings a lot to the table and should go a long way towards keeping Rambo units in check. It's a more extreme version of the 8 point Morlock that can choose to light up a dodging opponent with an Assault Pistol.

    The KHD profile all hinges on the Cyber Mines. Zeros, Bandits, and Interventors seem to be superior choices, however, the ability to regain a marker state through Cybermask could be big plus if the Mines are solid.
     
    #89 wellspokenman, Jun 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    4,887
    On vanilla... Tunguska would get 3-4 I'd say xD

    Cybermask specialist needs little justification :p
    I'd say it's a profile more for Tunguska, frankly.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,529
    Likes Received:
    6,495
    I'm going to disagree. Honestly I think we've got a Kriza/TM/Gecko situation.

    Disregarding Cybermines.

    Zero KHD is a better button pusher: Infiltration puts it closer to the objective and Mines helps it keep opposing specialists away from the objective. But it has Zero BTS and can't Shoot it's way out of a paper bag.

    Bandits are attack units. But their roles sometimes conflict and you consequently need to be careful using them. They're probably the worst KHD in the game.

    Interventors are the best KHD in Nomads but they don't have a Marker state and start in the DZ. They're an amusing late game attack piece with a Marker state BSG; but it's more of a pocket option than a reliable tactic.

    Hecklers sit across a lot of these functions. Surprise Shot BS12 Mimmetism is a solid pocket attacker. They outperform Zeros and Bandits as hackers. They're not quite as effective a button pusher as Zeros, probably are on par with Bandits and will outperform Interventors (because they can clear opposing Specialists off the objective more reliably).

    What the KHD profile allows is to free up Zeroes or Bandits for other uses. It's solid.
     
    Icchan, Solar and Elric of Grans like this.
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    5,529
    Likes Received:
    6,495
    I'm not sure TJC will get more than 2 Hecklers: see Morans and Bandits.

    I think you're right and they'll get 3, but it wouldn't be unprecedented them getting the same AVA.
     
  13. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    I might have said this already but I think one of the biggest differences is that you would easily take Mutts at that price without the Jammer while you would never take the Heckler over another profile or SK.
     
    Section9, inane.imp and Wyrmnax like this.
  14. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,352
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Let's see it on the other side...
    One NEVER fields a Mutt with a different loadout.
    With Hecklers, all the choices seem pretty solid.
     
  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,458
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    That's just typical on WB that get BSG or Combi instead of LSG or SMG.
     
    Solar, inane.imp and Wyrmnax like this.
  16. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    448
    Thats more a problem of a BS weapon being crap on a BS11 unit, especially since you double the cost of the unit to get it instead of a Chain Rifle.

    Same thing happen on USAriadna with Devil Dogs. They have a Heavy Shotgun profile, but it is pretty much never worth paying for it because of the extreme added cost on a unit that has crap BS to start with instead of picking the chain rifle.
     
  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Prowler taken on its own, I would agree. In a heavy camo midfield control list, I disagree. If you have 2-3 other camo units doing stuff during your active, a coordinated recamo is pure gold. And that Spitfire on a heavily armored platform all the way in the center of the field is actually worth the points/SWC imo. It's there for when your Zeros need someone to actually kick butt and your Intruder is on the wrong firelane.
     
    Robock likes this.
  18. neostrider

    neostrider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    95
    Prowler spitfire will stay strong. It can remarker making it very order expensive to dig out, starts in ideal range band, and can move even closer getting under missile launcher and hmg ideal range bands before shooting.

    Prowler could also try to deploy in enemy half. Not a popular tactic but bring: 2 if one succeeds you'll probably eat the enemy army so much you won't need the failed infiltrator
     
    McNamara likes this.
  19. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    520
    I run the Prowler spitfire often, but I have never been *that* brave. Throwing Zeroes over the center line often pays dividends, but I don't know about someone that expensive... I might try it against someone like Le Muet that I'd otherwise struggle with, but that's a lot of chips to call on 45% odds. You make more money betting black in roulette.

    It is true though that the re-camo often means the difference between life and death. I prefer it to Suppression for him.
     
    Savnock and loricus like this.
  20. invalideffort

    invalideffort Burnt Spektr

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    130
    I think the khd will If not replace the khd interventor in my lists at least take over its current role(especially in tjc). Right now I normally cybermask my interventor and use it as a marker specialist running up and hitting buttons. But having that first token state free, starting upfield, being able to cybermask, still having that -3 after you reveal, and area denial (hopefully) with cyber mines is solid.
     
    loricus likes this.