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Heavy Infantry links and Limited Insertion (MO).

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Domino25, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Good thoughts here.

    Yes, having a Hacker in the link can be a big liability. The most dangerous, high-probability programs are Hacker vs Hacker. As a result, sometimes it's best not to have a Hacker in the link team.

    The Hacker vs Heavy Infantry programs aren't too bad bad. Faerie Dust, Tinbot, etc. all help provide defense against them. As you say, you can reset out of most of them. The most dangerous programs there are the ones that cause Isolation. Isolation is dangerous because it can't be reversed with a Reset. You need to use an Engineer to repair the affected unit.

    However, if you have Faerie Dust and combine it with Stealth to sneak past Repeaters, you have a lot of control and protection against programs that cause Isolation.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  2. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    Ah, I see Oblivion would be the problem. If he lands it on Joan at the right time, I might be out 50 points worth of unit (if the engineer is dead or far away), loss of lieutenant, link team broken and my warcor/tech-bee go back to irregular for the game. That seems like a pretty big risk and and considering my other HI would be vulnerable to it, that would be close to game over? I could Fairy dust, but does Mary's Killer hacking device allow her to ignore Firewalls, regardless of the hacking program? Stealth helps in the active turn, but during my reactive I should expect him to gun for Joan with Oblivion? I suppose it's a risk inherent to the known aggressive lieutenant though? Even if hackers weren't a threat he would literally gun for her with an HMG? I'm definitely out of my comfort zone with that. I'm wondering if this is a flat bad idea, or if it will "educational" to get used to tanking with bts and how I defend during the reactive?
     
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  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    That's a good assessment.

    I don't think there's much danger in treating it as an educational opportunity.

    A big part of Infinity will always be about judgement calls made on the table. You may be able to win the mission by staying back and primarily using your HMG, in which case you don't have to worry that much about your link walking into Hacking range. You may also be able to identify a weak point in your opponent's Hacking net, and punch the team right through it. It's hard to evaluate what's "right" or "wrong" until you're on the table and can see your opponent's deployment, terrain setup, etc.

    That phenomenon's frustrating from a preparation standpoint, but always makes the game itself feel very dynamic.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  4. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, just try and learn. It's the best way.

    But be aware of the other big danger for your HI links, the Hecklers. They have some nasty E/M weapons plus the Jammer, and those isolate HIs, plus if one of those catch the guy with the Deflector, it would get disabled making the link more vulnerable to their hackers. So don't get too close to their CAMO markers or you can get a E/M template in the face or get Jammered.
     
  5. Quehacesfede

    Quehacesfede Member

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    Last time I played against Tunguska, my opponent had Mary Problems and an Interventor on the table and I ran a Crusader core with Joan v2, a KoS KHD, De Fersen, a HMG HK and a boarding shotgun HK. For the record, I don't like Crusader fireteams. It was an experiment.

    As he went first, he flooded the table with pitchers. During his first turn, he focused too much on disabling Joan, who luckily tanked all the hacking attempts (15 WIP, 6 BTS plus the KoS Tinbot). In the end, my KoS Redrummed the hell out of Mary Problems through one of her pitchers.
    I almost never use Crusaders as they never land where I intend to. Luckily this time I had one. My opponent left his Interventor hidden near one edge of the table. The Crusader appeared on this edge really close to the Interventor without rolling PH and took it down without much difficulty.

    I had a ton of luck, and the hacking threat was gone before I finished my first turn.
     
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  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I am generally of the opinion that the Haris is for the offensive and the Core is for the Reactive until your core ARO guys get inevitably picked off, following which what's left can form a second Active smaller unit.

    Hence why the Hospitaller Haris is very good IMO. Smaller, more easily advanced up the board, less bunched up and unwieldy.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  7. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    As a follow up:

    He brought 2 Interventors (Killer/Hacking plus), and an Evo hacker. I brought Joan, De Fersen, Santiago Killer Hacker and Hospitallers, as well as an Evo. All those hackers, all my worries and in the end the only major hacks were "Controlled Jump" and "Hack Transport Aircraft". While my link of doom and his Salazmander did exchange 3 rounds of fire, the only real killing was done by a crusader that I dropped behind his lines and took out 3 of his guys including an Interventor hacker/lieutenant and the repeater threatening my link. I had missed the landing I wanted but got one that actually worked a bit better by luck. I can't promise a more experienced set of players would have the same result. My thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, particularly Quehacesfede who inspired me to just go for it and try to get the hackers with a Crusader.
     
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  8. Quehacesfede

    Quehacesfede Member

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    Good news man, it looks that we've found a new dedicated role for the Crusader. Hacker Hunter maybe? I'll think of a cool name for its new role.
    Still, having him land instead of appearing through one of the edges was very risky, your whole game depended on that PH + Dispersion Roll. I usually don't fare well in decisive rolls, great to hear that yours went well.

    I'll love to see the full list you played with. I'm sure I'll get some new ideas for my list building which is pretty stagnant at the moment. Maybe it's time to wipe the dust off my Crusader and make him see some game time again.
     
  9. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    I'm not sure I'd call it a groundbreaking in any way but below is the list I used. We were unable to find anywhere in the rules where it explicitly said we could use the lower versions of Airbone deployment, so we played as if that wasn't a choice, thus the risky jump for my crusader.


    Hail Mary
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 31)
    DE FERSEN Spitfire / Pistol, Templar CCW (AP + Shock). (2 | 56)
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (+1 | 49)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    MACHINIST (Father-Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    CRUSADER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    4 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  10. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record:
    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Special_Skills#Special_Skill_Levels

    Special Skill Levels
    Some Special Skills are divided into Levels of expertise with distinct effects and uses.

    Unless otherwise stated, any numerical Level of a Special Skill automatically grants all lower Levels of the same Skill. For example, a Level 3 also grants Levels 1 and 2.

    Conversely, alphabetical Levels such as Level X state whether they grant any other Levels of the Skill or not.
     
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  11. Dreilide

    Dreilide Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thank you so much for this! I've been trying to get myself caught up on all the various rules interactions, and have not been able to locate this specific one. I had the same confusion on combat jump, a bad dispersion in one of my last games got my Crusader one shot, while a quick walk on board edge would have ended up with him cleaning house.
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can always decide to walk on or drop in, and notice that AD2/Airborne Infiltration does not require you to pre-determine your entry point like AD1/Parachutist does.

    Most of the time, you really are better off using AD2 than AD4/Combat Jump
     
    Judge Dredd likes this.