Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Aug 17, 2018.
My dude, please use this and make sure to get the sand out that's evidently stuck up there.
God, I hope the immortal army is better than MO. MO could use a rework. At the very least, we are already sure that IA will not suffer from the massive redundancy of HI in MO.
What redundancy of HI?
There's only Hospitaliers, Joan, De Fersen, and Magisters! Well, maybe Santiagos if you want to play boarding party, but there are no other HI in the Military Orders!
I'm firmly a believer that in a vacuum most of the Knights aren't actually a problem statwise, their issue is you can't take a dirt cheap defensive link team in MO and play with a couple of super solo rambo HI or budget Haris instead of a full core link. Right now MO's big failing IMO is that it's basically JSA if JSA could only do core Domaru/Tanko links, which wouldn't leave room for other interesting types of models like the Bikers, Ryukens, O-Yoroi, or Onis.
As soon as you take away the burning need to make a core HI link in the army, like slotting them into vanilla, their tech gets alot more interesting with Mechanised Deployment, E/M grenades, and other less hurrrr shoot good F2F skills. You can do some cool stuff with Montesa like starting them on the halfway line and then immediately spec firing in their good rangeband with a LGL on 11s into your opponent's deployment zone. Makes a pretty good option to safely dismantle a defensive link team, pick off cheap targets with shitty dodge values (like the flavour of the month Dakinis), or pick off weak datatrackers, DVTs, obvious LTs.
Father Knight and Teutons could use a look over though. A KHD Father Knight with a Multi Rifle or BS would actually be pretty impressively scary between BTS 9 and unheard of WIP values for Pan-O.
Um... they can make 4-man Fusiliers and 5-man Order Sergeants are literally the same price as 5-man Celestial Guard, except as far as defensive link is concerned they've got Heavy Rocket Launcher as an additional weapon option and a point higher BS, which is nothing to sneeze at. With that logic ISS has the same problems as MO.
The 4 man Fusi link feels bad. With that said I didn't realise there was a non auxbot version of the HRL that could link, so I take that back. I'd play most of those knights in MO and feel like it was a competitive alternative to the Hospitalar link.
Seems odd to get so worked up about something without even bothering to look it up beforehand. Especially when someone in this thread already pointed out how there is
Did you have a point or did you just want an argument? Because I can do that too.
Anyhow, back to the thread about HI.
Looking at my original post, I’m thinking the Zhencha (infiltrating HI) I’m thinking will be in the 25-35pts range. If they don’t give him like actual infiltration but more like FD Level 2, and Mimitisim instead of camo. We’ve seen by the dossier that he’s light on weapons but also he’s only wearing a poncho like thing. Which gives me the impression of no actual camo but just mimetisim and/or limited Camo.
The Haidao though I think it’s going to be in the 30-40pt range, He looks heavier, and has some strong weapons. To me he looks like a sapper or combat engineer of some sort. There's also not much in that range.
Again 30-40 for the Liu Xing. Definitely a HI with Combat Jump. That alone would make him more expensive than Tigers. He even has almost the same weapons as Tigers but with the addition of CCW, D-Charges, and Multi-rifle instead of combi. I’m of the feeling that having an extra wound and armor is not going to allow for them having Mimitisim though.
Mo Wang I’m guessing 50-60, He didn’t have much in the way of weapons but the armor could be pretty impressive if it’s like ARM6, BTS6 or 9. I’m hoping he’s not as slow as the Yan Huo. But I’m thinking not, he’s more like a Kriza Borak, Swast, or Sogarat. Just for Comparison, Sogarat is in the high 50s with ARM6 but heavier weapons.
Those are some nice speculations @Space Ranger but I wonder if your points estimates for the zencha and haidao might be the wrong way around. Infiltration and (presumably) some level of camouflage usually go on profiles in the 20-30pt range and they don't tend to have armour or an extra wound. The haidao on the other we haven't heard any special skills for have we? If a Zuyong can cost 27pts then what are we expecting to ramp up the cost of the haidao?
Can't really fault your logic for the others though.
I'm thinking mostly some of those weapons like the Red Fury and Multi-Rifle will be at the high end. The Zhencha has very short range and not crazy powerful stuff.
The Mo Wang does have strangely light weapons for something so bulky and seemingly no backup capability like the Dai Yokai's CC. Maybe fatality lvl 1?
Having Mowang weaponset in mind it may be a 10-10 or even 15-10 HI.
It also lacks punch with Damage 13 weapons and mid/short range. so maybe he will have some level of fatality? or maybe another skill that will grant him some advantage in comparaison with the Yan huo? I find the fatality 1 a bit short minded, specially because there are some people spreading rumours about mowang being a 2W+NWI troop. Too much similarities with the Daiyokai.
His Camo Pattern is also an intriguing choice... Almost no Yujing troop concepts have camo patterns. Nor the Tiger, Nor suntze v1, Nor the Guilang, nor the zencha... Only the daofei coat and the svalarheima alt-scheme of the Guijia. So, It may be some meaning behind it. Maybe related to the corean proto-HI with Mechanized deploiment rumored on N1. Who Knows?
About the Haidao, It's rumored they'll have combat engineers among their options and that they'll probably be in a lot of Linkteams. That may be some kind of solution to isolation, E/M and Adhesive in a sectorial that depends on toughness.
That brings questions about How exactly are gonna be the IA fireteams
There are rumors about remotes inside IA linkteams, The sensor one could be a nice addition because IA has almost no tech against camos so far. There are people hoping for Yanhuo inside fireteams (mainly because of the Yanhuo multi HMG but the Twin Missile launcher YH in a fireteam is no Joke either)
And lastly the Shang-ji. How exactly is gonna fit this oldstyle vanilla profile inside the sectorial? how is it supposed to compete against the rest of the HI options?
Well it's all guesswork at this stage anyway I suppose.
I'm also being haunted by that suggestion some time back that some of them will be single wound HI with no wound incap.
I highly doubt they would have Yan Hou in a link team. At least not with the HRMC. At most maybe a Duo.
Shang-Ji is a big Wait and see. I’m hoping for something that’s very assault oriented. I hope they don’t do much to make the price go up though.
Note: keep in mind also Vanilla when thinking about new troops and how it would affect them. I know we are looking forward to IA but look at them too. I personally feel Vanilla Nomads got a huge boost when Tunguska came out. I dare say Vanilla became more powerful than Tunguska could be. For instance: I don't think Vanilla should have gotten Mary Problems.
Unfortunately yes but we can do educated guess by looking at the points, theme, and other factors.
That's a horrible idea! What would be the point? Pseudo-HI is NOT HI. Medium like ARM2-3 with it I can understand. But it's still kind of silly.
They've proven their flavour of the month is fireteam specific profile entries, using a similar system to the Morats. It's entirely possible that the IA Yan Huo entries will be set up so the HRMC is unable to link while the rest are.
Which means that Shang Ji will not have Haris natively, at least not stacked with Wildcard.
And that's pretty unfortunate, because making Shang Ji wildcards (like Veteran Kazaks in TAK) would help make them useful.
But it would be nice to have the MultiHMG linkable. I can't see a reason to take the MultiHMG over the HRMC right now.
I'm going to guess Haidao has Wildcard.
I mean I'm predicting the Shang Ji are literally getting nothing because they're being squatted. I feel like if they weren't we would've seen something by now.
Personal attacks are forbidden.