Healing vs unopposed attack

Can't find the NWI Doctor heals themself answer, which is annoying as hell, because I remember that thread being quite the flame fest for a bit of a time period. Must've been one that veered off topic so it's extra hard to search. Oh well.

Considering the new/latest Shock FAQ you're referring to is from a time after infinitytheforums got locked down completely, it absolutely is =D

 

No. They have to be Unconcious. NWI is an Unconcious state, so you can heal a trooper in NWI (which means that Avi and Machaon can go all 'DOCTOR HEAL THYSELF!').

Note that Engineers and Structure is different. You can heal things with Structure all the way up to full.

 

To use Doctor you need the troup with Wounds to be in the Unconscious state (NWI is valid here, Dogged is irrelevant since the troop will die anyway at the end of the turn).
So no, unless it's something like the Asura (2W + NWI) in the NWI state. And unless you are using an Akbar doctor, it will recover 1 wound and that's it.

 

That's it, that's the lovely buzzing feeling of playing Infinity, a game that tries to simulate as much as possible as efficiently as possible. It's a lovely paradox that's fun to play :)

 

Personally I would expect that taking a Shock hit on a 1 Wound model (NWI or not) that is not Shock Immune in any way would actually result in the model going to dead, regardless of whether it was currently Unconscious at the time, or if it happened to receive a successful Doctoring in the same Order. Shock is straight to Dead, it has nothing to do with the net Wound count in the Order. If you were Unconscious and Doctored, without suffering a Wound, you'd be conscious again. If you're not getting back up, you must have suffered a hit, which means all the effects of the hit should apply.

 

All Shock does is bypass Unconscious states, it doesn't actually straight to dead you. This makes interactions here weird, when a model already is unconscious and an order takes it nowhere.

 

Well if you are currently Unconscious, and something tells you you're not allowed to be Unconscious anymore, there seems to be only one remaining option...?

Edit:

• If the target has a Wounds Attribute of 1 on his profile and fails an ARM Roll against Shock Special Ammunition, then he enters the Dead state directly, bypassing the Unconscious state.

It does actually say "Dead state directly"

 

theres no net effect though, the cleanest way is to say nothing happens

 

Let's be clear here, there is no net *change in Wounds* in that order.

 

It's not a clean entry if you take everything into context by any means.

However, you're cutting off context by removing the line in effects that specify you take a wound, and not only can it be argued that the second bullet point has to have the first bullet point also occur, but it can be argued that it's impossible to bypass a state that the trooper is already in which would mean the entire bullet point is impossible to execute.

 

The line specifies that you failed an ARM roll vs. Shock, which for this discussion to be at all relevant must have happened. So the first bullet point did occur. Otherwise you'd be conscious now due to the successful doctor roll that also happened. The target both gained a Wound and lost a Wound, hence a net zero in resolution.

 

Yeah, exactly. It's a logical nightmare to walk through with no clear outcome that's not weighted by your personal preference and will be different from meta to meta or even TO to TO. Now that it seems impossible to trace down the ruling or agreement on the old forums, even though it's presumably still there, this does merit an official ruling since it's not at all outlandish that a Vet Kazak breaks camo to nail Machaon or a Sophotect who's trying to heal themself. (Though the original question was about the much rare case of a Shock grenade striking the doctor's patient, which could still happen and produce roughly the same outcome)

 

Not that this is relevant to the thread, but... Vet Kazaks with Camo? Shock Grenades? What?

 

Em what was the issue to begin with?

 

Misremembering things; Kazak Spetznaz is the nasty one and Mines or Dropbears will do it for the doctor example.

 

In the old forums? If I knew that I'd have found the answer. But essentially, what I'm looking for is what happens when Machaon successfully heals himself when shot with a single Shock ammo and fails ARM.

 

The original question of the thread I answered already. This has transformed into a discussion of "what if that single hit you took happened to be Shock ammo?"


If you take a hit from normal ammo, but are also healed a Wound in the same Order, the Unconscious model stays unconscious.

If you take a hit from Shock, you go straight to dead.

If you are unconscious, and take a hit from shock ammo, but are also healed a Wound in the same Order, are you still Unconscious or straight to dead?

 

model gets healed to 1, gets wounded by shock and goes to dead, assuming a 1W model with NWI.