I'm looking for a couple new list ideas for HB. I've found that I tend to always go back to the same basic muyib list for virtually every game with them. When I try to switch out more that 1 or 2 models I tend to do worse. I'm hoping people will post their PvE HB list with a couple pointers. Note: I've personally given up on the Lasiqs as an ARO pieces because most lists have an HMG with MSV or 5 man link which takes them out easily.The only times the VSR does well is when they don't have an HMG bully or there is a tall terrain piece touching the back corner of the table to be able to outrange the HMG. Spoiler: PvE Muyib PvE: Muyibs ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ASAWIRA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 43) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) MUYIB Lieutenant Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23) MUYIB Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) FARZAN (Marksmanship L1, Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) BARID Hacker (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) RAGIK Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 6 3 DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army Basic Fireteam of Muyibs with an Asawira spitfire as the point, Leila as back up. This is very mean up to 24 inches, but tends to hit a weakness on well places HI HMG\HRL. I used the Ghazis smoke to let me control the firelanes & ranges, also create a protective safe zone for my link from flankers. Farazans for button pushing, Fiday because why not. I took out the Lasiq for a Ragics after a tournament where the didn't survive a single order. Daylamis are order sinks. I tend to use my Command tokens on converting the second battle groups order into regulars. I've also done this with coordinated order to have multiple daylamis take out HI Aro pieces turn 1. Spoiler: PvE Govad PvE Govads ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 GOVAD HMG / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) GOVAD Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) GOVAD Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) AP Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 45) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FARZAN (Marksmanship L1, Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) RAGIK Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 25) BARID Hacker (Assault Hacking Device UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) GROUP 2 5 3 MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) DAYLAMI Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 7) 4.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army I haven't tried this yet, but I think its going to be my new list for factions with lots of camo/odd. Govad fireteam with HMG as main gun and ML as back up long range option. The Asawira docs as point when working in rifle range, and if it can get in 8 inches the BS target is 23. I am tempted to drop the ragic or fiday to add in the more daylami and a chearleader bot
PvE usually means content related to not fighting against players... So I assumed you were gearing up for a game where the opposing models were automated in some way.
OK, fixed the title to be non-PvE. I always referred to PvE as in all around decent, and non tailored for a specific purpose.
Hmmm... are you asking for lists that take advantage of the soft counters around various problems to mix up what you normally take?
Some quick thoughts on your Muyib list: 1) complete (okay there are panzerfausts) lack of long range weapons really limits your options. Although I often omit a high burst Muyib, I frequently take two of the bargain-basement priced Muyib HRLs. 2) Ghulams with Leila and a ML have become my go to core, but a Muyib haris often makes it’s way in unless I’m going fiday/farzan heavy. If there are three muyibs I’ll add a fourth to make the core option available w/Leila. 2a) I, personally, do not use the Asawira most of the time, but that’s personal preference to have more orders/models. 3) I highly recommend one, preferably two regular orders for group two. You will almost always have an avenue you can exploit with a mutt or daylami, and if not then you have a specialist or other piece you can make use of without using your main group’s orders. 4) You have two points left; give that poor ragik a rifle+lsg for increased flexibility. That ability to reach out can really punish poor deployment. 5) so much for quick. The Rafiq is extremely useful, especially given HB’s general lack of MSV. Highly recommend.
@Myomer 1) That's an option I didn't think of. My default is usually a High B point guy to bully ARO pieces. 2) I've never had luck with Ghulam defensive core. My local meta usually has a an HI HMG (often with TO Camo) which just eats them. I don't mind my daylami acting as speed bumps, but ghulam core is a little expensive to act as disposable ARO pieces. 3) I used to put regular orders in my second battle group with the intent of refilling my fist battle group, but I would have to remove some of the disposable aro pieces, I found that just having more ARO pieces was better. They are good enough that they can't be ignored, and waste your opponents orders. Now I use my command tokens to change the irregular to regulars when needed, usually turn one to maximize Ghazi placements. I guess if you don't play an asawira you have a couple more points to toss in some Fanous & Kameels. I'll keep that in mind if I take out the Asawira. A side note I try to avoid remotes just to avoid carrying a second case to game night. 4) Done, But some times I really want the +1 damage on the boarding shotgun. 5) I've been sneaking him back in. Sometimes I think its superfluous to have both Ragiks & Fidays. But it is nice to have a reinforcements mid game. I'll look at taking out my Asawira point guy. Before the last refresh I was always trying to get them in my lists, and having 1 in the fireteam was what I wished for. It's turned into my defaults.
In my humble opinion, a statistical advantage which comes into play less often than once in every 50 shootouts (against something semi-competent in ARO) isn't something worth wanting over quadrupling area of your effective interaction. Could be interesting if you have really high ARM things to crack, but I'm not sure it's the vector you'd want to use against them even if they are present...
I had some luck with a boarding shotgun Ragik facing TAK in Firefight. The Ragik was able to take down both a Ratnik and Vet Kazak. This is very anecdotal, but if you're expecting to face entrenched high armor troops, there might be a use case for the Ragik. As Barrogh said, the Rifle + LS is generally a better choice because you can just be a pain in the butt and go in suppressive fire behind their lines.
Take a chance with a Ragik trio list: Hacker, BS and Spitfire. Force "Change Facing" AROs with the first two, perhaps tank one ARO with Dogged. Then land the Spitfire and start cleaning up, taking turns with each of your Ragiks. Or just blast them with BS (especially if dealing with a Fireteam) after removing extras with the Spitfire and get the objective with your Hacker, protecting your position from HI, REMs and TAGs at the same time.
Depending on what and when you are going to attack, you don't necessarily need 3rd Ragik to "circle" the target. General direction of your DZ is also, well, a direction, and if target is deep enough into its own DZ, chances are you won't be able to practically encircle it with 3 Ragiks either since they aren't Van Zants. When it comes to tricks like this though, remember that this doesn't work against fireteams and you spending a lot of orders and bodies to basically remove one piece. It's better be worth it because otherwise you play into your opponent's hands.
This is the first list I am going to run next year. I think it will let me get a good feel for the Sectorial. HB first list ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 MUYIB (X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GROUP 2 2 6 4 DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 39) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army The only thing I would like to change is maybe swap in a Barid KHD for some hacking support and maybe another Ayyar for Firelane cover. I do not expect this list to do well but let me learn several of the rules and tactics for the Sectorial. Also love the chance to Rocket spam like a classic game of Halo.
@BlazyCrane I would swap the Fiday and the Farazan. The Fiday needs orders turn 1 and should not be in the second battle group which is mostly irregulars. Tell me how you find the Ayyar, I personally never found him that great, and I almost always put in a Asawira in the Muyib team which rarely leaves room for an ayyar. Lastly I think 3 HRL is bit overkill, I would at least swap one out for Doc+, just to have a specialist. Unless you are looking for a dedicated ARO fireteam which isn't moving.
Thanks for the advice @Cannon Fodder, I did update that list as best I could added Leila and another spitfiire including the doc. Some how made it work. Also after reading up more on the skills, I have created another list intending for a more mid-field control focus. Though I think this one is probably weaker. Mid-Field List ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 MUYIB (X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) MUYIB (X Visor) Spitfire, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28) MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22) MUYIB Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) ÁYYĀR Sniper / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0.5 | 39) GROUP 2 2 5 3 DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
