1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Hassassin Theorycrafting

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by QueensGambit, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    I like that list quite a lot, for firefight or otherwise. Taking the Ragik as a hacker is spicy at WIP15 and with the utility of N4's hacking devices.
     
    Xagul82 and Xeurian like this.
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    4,858
    Has anyone tried the Shujae? It looks cool, but I haven't given it a go yet.
     
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,801
    Likes Received:
    12,369
    Triads can have any trooper with the skill join then, Haris is restricted to the base Troop only, plus any counts as/Wildcards.

    For example, in Ramah you can't have a Janissary and Khawarij in the same Haris, even though they both have the skill.
     
  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,037
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Besides, multiple Triads are allowed simultaneously. There can be only one Haris at any given moment.
     
  5. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    66

    I saw a good profile but with bad weapons. Shujae maybe needs minelayer (mines and E/mauler) and the AP rifle change it for AP spitfrie or just a spifrie or hmg. becaus haqqislam dont have 4 roll dice with mimetism (just kaplan (never used) and muktar)

    maybe usable with infiltration.

    In conclusion I don't see him good. just change the weaponary, haqqislam only gets rifles and shoutguns it's just the same (nadhir, farzan, alhawa tuareg....), one more to the basket.
     
  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    839
    The Flammenspeer profile does seem pretty flexible. Put him out as a long-range ARO, or put him in suppression with a command token. Then plant some E/M mines and poke an objective, or shoot an HI with the SMG.

    But I keep reaching for the Nadhir instead. He's less flexible (less forward deployment, no mines, no AP ammo), but he does the most important things the Shujae can do, hidden deployment is huge obviously, and I like the Panzerfaust over the Flammenspeer.

    I tried to make a list with two Nadhirs and a Shujae, but I couldn't find the points without giving up too many Daylamis.

    Basically if it has a Panzerfaust I like it, I guess.

    Maybe as we get more experience with the high-ARM N4 meta, those e/m mines will start looking even better.
     
    Barrogh likes this.
  7. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    I've used it twice. One time I got too forward with it and it died to a counter-deployed mine that it failed to dodge. Sorta my fault. The other time it killed a peacemaker by catching it at a good angle then solo'd a Squalos by fighting it at 16" from a position that didn't give the Squalos any good guts moves.

    I've only taken the AP Rifle profile so far, I don't see the others as being nearly as valuable.
     
  8. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    325
    Agreed, i see niche uses for the others but i still dont get the smg hype. But that ap rifle and light shotgun combo, pretty nice.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  9. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    384
    Ran this last night: https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...BBAACBQCBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACGCQEDAAAyAQEA

    Code: gZIQaGFzc2Fzc2luLWJhaHJhbQEggSwCAQoAgUwBAQAAhgwBAgAAgVEBAgAAgVEBAQAAgUcBBgAAgUcBAgAAgUkBCgAAgTgBAwAAgTgBAwAAgUgBBAACBQCBQwEGAACBQwEGAACBQwEGAACGCQEDAAAyAQEA

    Opponent was Tunguska, mission was 5-card draw on MICS. Won the roll and took first turn.

    The Asawira LT ran solo, and was generally effective for doing objectives. The AP spitfire is a welcome addition...ARM4 didn't come into play but BTS9 did a good job of discouraging isolation from the Heckler.

    One of my objectives was to kill the opponent's LT. There were really only two LT options on the table (securitate). I used both Fidays to get this job done, basically deployed next to one another using a Command Token. The first was able to clear out a Heckler providing cover, but got isolated for his trouble. The second was able to set up a combo move threatening one Securitate with a mine, and moving up a ladder into CC with the other Securitate. The change to Shotguns is huge, allowing you to just double blast fools unopposed if they shoot you, or CC them if they try to dodge. Anyway, the movement provoked ARO from both and ended up killing both with the single order.

    My opponent's defensive link was 2 Securitate, 1 Securitate Paramedic, 1 Grenzer sniper with Marksmanship and MSV1, and a Securitate Feuerbach. Nasty ARO castle...in general this was hard to take apart. Yara got slotted by the Grenzer despite the link being taken down to a 3-man and firing through smoke. She's good I'm sure, but extremely squishy. You need other options to lean on if you're going to run her. Having Tac Awareness on both of the Muyib special weapon profiles is really nice...I only spent one order getting that Muyib HRL killed in the active turn lol

    On the opposite flank, my opponent had deployed two Hollow Men. These guys can really wreck your day...I deployed the Lasiq and a few of the Daylami watching their cover, and Hidden Deployed the Nadhir on a roof also watching. The Hollowman Multirifle superjumped off of his rooftop to ground level to kill the Lasiq...he was able to do so, but was shot out of the air by both of the Daylami hitting on 14s...oof. The change to Daylami, being able to deploy in your own DZ, is absolutely huge. You go from essentially a throwaway ARO last edition to something that is a legitimate threat.

    All in all, really close game. The changes to Assassins make them far less reliant on Ghazis, which I can never see bringing again given the other options.
     
  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    839
    I had a fairly similar experience with this type of list a couple of days ago in Domination. My opponent had a core linked Taagma sniper. There was no way I wanted to risk Yara fighting that thing - she's odds favoured to win, but the risk of losing is still way too high. Ran the link as far into the midfield as it could get without facing the sniper, put out a couple of repeaters for defense, and just sat it there holding a zone all game. Yara barely fired a shot, but Neema Saatar used so many orders to get through the repeater field that, by the time she reached the link, she didn't have enough steam left to do any significant damage.

    In all, I think literally the only thing I killed in my active turn was a Draal who was murdered by Djabel just to secure an otherwise unoccupied zone. But in my reactive turn, I eventually managed to kill the Taagma, a Brawler HRL, Neema, and Kiiutan with panzerfaust and shotgun template AROs. My opponent killed way more than that, but I had 3 zones every turn.

    I'm starting to see the link as a pure toolbox, and not a shooty link at all. Yara is good for removing specific problem units through smoke, but she's not a scary monster by any stretch, and the less I actually have to fire her gun, the happier I am.

    The crazy ARO presence keeps the opponent locked down while the other units do the mission as efficiently as possible, with a minimum of fighting. It's a playstyle that I'm finding I very much enjoy.
     
  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    732
    As an aside, did anyone else notice that the Rafiq with red fury is now available for the Bahram?
     
    Urobros, sololobo and Xeurian like this.
  12. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    72
    @TriggerPuller9000

    Great stuff! Reports like this really help us unable to scurry to the table top get a birds eye view of the emerging meta. I’m curious to see how we do against PanO and Yu Jing armor lists. If you get a match under your knuckles please report it!

    @Papa Bey

    Yes! I’m actually going to review my lists to see if I can fit two in since I run double Rafiqs. These and hackers would make good flank deterrents from a multitude of threats.
     
    #72 sololobo, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  13. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    200
    I like the list, seems versatile. What does 5 card draw on a MICS mission mean?

    Small quibble but you will need at least a Ghulam in that core to make it a “Ghulam” link. Not much problem though, since a Ghulam Hacker is just a point cheaper.

    I agree with your assessment of the link team. Haqq links are cheap enough to sit around to be late game problem solvers, since by the time your opponent gets through the Fidays and camo tokens and nonsense AROs, they will have lesser answers for a full link. Leila as a pointwoman used to do that for me but we now get fancy Yara with BS13 and decent effective ARM/BTS 3.
     
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    I wrote this as a meme, but I think it might actually be good.

    Link:
    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...CAAIFAIE+AQEAAIFUAQQAAIFUAQQAAIFDAQYAAIFDAQYA

    Code:
    gZIQaGFzc2Fzc2luLWJhaHJhbRVIb3QgZHVvcyBpbiB5b3VyIGFyZWGBLAIBCwCGCgEBAACGCgECAACGDAECAACBLQEIAACBLQEOAACBLQETAACBUQECAACBUQEBAACBOgEBAACBTQEBAACBTAECAAIFAIE+AQEAAIFUAQQAAIFUAQQAAIFDAQYAAIFDAQYA

    If you're willing to really strip the list back and have the ghulam core purely as a support team for smoke and pitchers you can even run it with an Asiwira core alongside the Shakush, which I don't even know whether I love or hate.
     
    Sojourne likes this.
  15. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    200
    Haha how is it supposed to be a meme list. I can see this for the “take and hold” missions pretty well.
     
  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Everything starts with a good list name.
     
  17. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    384
    It's a card-based system similar to YAMS. In this case we just drew 5, but usually play either draw 7 keep 5, or Texas Hold'em (draw 4 keep 2, then there are 3 common cards in the "river" that get flipped at the start of Turns 1, 2, and 3).


    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/mics-the-modular-infinity-card-system.24966/


    Good point re the link, I had forgotten about that - thank you. The two candidates for replacement are the Barid Hacker (with a Ghulam Hacker - you save a point but lose a point of BS and 3 BTS) and the Muyib LGL (with the NCO Ghulam).

    The NCO Ghulam is a lot cheaper but with an aggressive Asawira LT you're probably going to want to spend that order elsewhere. That said, a hacker in that link is probably more vulnerable than a smoke thrower. IMO it comes to down Command Token usage - do you think you'll be strapped for Command Tokens such that, if the Heavy Rocket goes down you would benefit from Number 2.

    Fwiw, the cost difference between the LGL Muyib and LGL Ghulam would let you double down on the girls, swapping the Barid KHD for Leila. Will try that next game.



    Sooooooooooo Assassins got a TAG. We not gonna talk about this development? I have no idea what this thing is doing in Assassins as it's not very Assassin-ey, but it's new. It's 19 points more than an Asawira. It's a little tougher (especially factoring in Frenzy), gun is kinda samey, same BS. Gets an extra order (abrogated by LT option on Asawira). More susceptible to hacking, not good in CC. Thoughts?
     
    #77 TriggerPuller9000, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  18. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    924
    A lot of hacking, maybe too many specialist in your army to play that mission? Did you some "field test"? If yes could you talk us about how the list worked? Please :)

    I don't know why but I see an empty list :( Same if I try to use the "code".

    Right now I think "hassasin" is in a good place. Yes they are many things more scaried than our beloved sectorial, but still we have an really usable army.

    I didn't play too many games, but a few. My feelings for the moment are sweet. Yes, we could have lose the "ghazi", but now we have really cheap daylamis with panzerfaust+camo+template. Yes, probably they will kill nothing, but what a joke if they do. Precisely yesterday had a Game (the first of a "League"), and ran a Hassasin army against Pano. The mission was Firefight (from the core book) without ITS rules.

    The list:
    Group 1.
    4xDaylami Camo-Panzer-l.shotgun
    1xGhazi E/marat - Chain.
    Group 2.
    2xFiday DA weapon. Smoke. Rifle + Lightshotgun.
    2xAsawira Spitfire.
    1xAsawira Doctor AP Rifle.
    1xMuyib HeavyRocketLauncher.
    1xMuyib Minelayer (EM)
    1xYara
    1xGhulam Lt +1Token
    1xGhulam NCO+Granade Launcher (regular/smoke).

    The enemy deployed:
    G1
    Tikbalang
    Aquila HMG
    2xFusiliers
    1xBullettier HeavyBoardingShotgun.
    2xRem FlashPulse.
    1xCrocmen Minelayer.
    1xMachinist+Palbot.
    1xTrauma+Palbot.
    G2
    NisseSnipper.
    BountyHunter Snipper
    Liberto.

    I was second. The aquila exterminated two daylamis in a single order. The tikbalang was a monster at first, taken down my spitifre linked (5member) asawira in a couple orders. Unconscious state. Later, the Nisse tried to put down the Muyib HRL. The enemy had bad luck and only made one wound and lose because the template the trauma doc. Tikbalang was pushed forward and face against the Muyib and one Daylami still in camo state. Muyib survived (no more wounds) and the daylami did a hit. Two wounds for the tik. The pano player contiued pushing and did 2 shoots against my asawira doctor, 1 against the muyib heavy rocket launcher and another against the daylami. Asawira doctor got one wound, muyib died and nothing happends in the face to face agaisnt the daylami (only an unloaded panzerfaust). The last order was for the Tikbalang, tanking covert behind a container and managing one wound in the asawira doctor.

    In the state phase I tried regeneration in the Asawira doctor and recovered it. Later I healed the Asawira spitifre with it. My turn was about to finished the tag. One wound more from a CC with one of the fiday, which suffered one wound from the Nisse multi snipper. Later I shooted the uncounscious TAG with the other Fiday (I could expose him) and after a few orders the Tag becomes dead. I can't get out of my deployment zone because the nisse snipper. I had only spitfires os simlar and a muyib with panzerfaust in the haris. I tried with the daylami which remains in "camo". I did in the second try, a critical hit to 8 put down for good the "damm nisse". I remade the "core" with 4 members and reorganized the haris.

    The second round for my enemy was quicly. He tried to put down the asawira spitfire (wounded) with the boarding shotgun crocmen. He shooted me, I placed two nanopulser templates in return. Both were unconscious. With not so many orders he tried to do some harm to the haris with the submachine libertos, which died under one template from the muyib and the last daylami. The Asawira suffered one wound.

    We will have to finish in my second turn, because the shop was about to close, so I hurried up and try only to heal the Asawira spitfire and with a "shoot" of medikit did the same against my wounded fiday.

    I don' know if we have played the latest Round, but I want to think the match it will be mine too.

    I think now the ARO relay in the daylamis instead the Ghazi, but this ones have still a role to play in combination.
    The cores are extremely flexibles now and the Asawira should be killed or the enemy will have a problem later. So as Hassasin players should we try to place our "HI" in a place where when they go prone, the enemy can't see them easily. With the multivisors level one seeing throug smoke, hassasin could have a hard time trying to get out of the deployment zone if the table is too open. So, we will have to be confidents in our "expendables" or in our fidays to put down the long range ARO pieces.
     
  19. Xagul82

    Xagul82 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2019
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    36
    @Urobros

    I had the chance of field testing the list. My opponent was again JSA with a Tanko Link + Kempetei (MSV 2). A Haris of Karakuri; Oyama and a Domaru, Yuriko oda Yjiojimbo, a Ryjuken (ODD) and a Pangulin (EVO)

    The Fidays are worth there value in gold, you choose a soft target and the Fiday gets the job done (at least when you deploy them right and dont forget the have stealth :-() I also used the Ragik whith sucsess. I kept it in the air till the EVO of my opponentn was gone an I could put assisted jump on. Landing on 18s is hard to miss even whith my luck ;-).

    The 5-men link is a toolbox on its own. But like every tool you need to handle it accordingly - something I struggle with. The Assawira failed in two attemts to put down the Ryjuken in Suppressive fire. I can not tell you why this would be a good Idea to start with, if I coould have used the NCO to smoke and then assign Yara for the job.... I still struggle whith moving the 5-men-link. Next time I´ll maybe try a defensive 5-men link and a Haris or a lone attaker - I wish those Govads could join a Ghulam link or the other way round...

    Besides the assisted jump I havent used hacking at all, whitch was maybe another mistake.

    I think Daylami take the roll of Mutts in N4 to some extend, whith the benefit of beeing in camo state.
     
    Xeurian and Urobros like this.
  20. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    1,802
    Hello friends! I came up with this list, I have not been playing unfortunately due to staying away from the game shops, but I plan on running this when I can:
    upload_2020-10-16_8-58-0.png

    Its got asymetrical ARO's in Group 1 to make it difficult to get to the deployment zone. If it goes second, the group 2 team hides away, to maintain their 7 orders, while the enemy deals with HD Nadhirs, Daylami Panzerfausts, and Fidays. If going first, Al-djabel alpha strikes, and Group 2 comes in after to lob grenades/get closer.