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Hassassin TAG (postponed until N4)

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by wildchevy, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Oh right, the Ramah-only profile. I forgot that exists. I've never used it, so can't assess it.

    It's a full 41 points more than the Shakush, and I'm pretty skeptical that a mine dispenser and 360 visor are worth 41 points. But I don't know! Maybe you're right and it's the better TAG.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    The Shukash would cost quite a bit more in N3, so the 41pt difference isn’t particularly meaningful.
     
  3. Janzerker

    Janzerker Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean there's a general discount to TAGs or it just applies to manned TAGs?
     
  4. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    I got to point out but with 7 reasons you really struggled to prove your point. I don't mean that aggressively.

    But:
    1 & 7 are it looks cool. Which is true of the art but if it gets a derpy pose that goes out the window. And seeing as it has a sword and a gun I expect a derpy pose.

    2. Yah 2nd TAG is cool. But that isn't a good reason for the one we got to exist. Its just a reason for another one existing. I mean that as the one we got doesn't do anything interesting where we could have gotten one that did.

    3. Your most fair point. But once again its not a reason for blandy McVanillatag but just conceptually a cheaper TAG.

    4. Haqq does lack durable offensive units but even then I would never take a close range TAG that is seemingly designed to get utterly wrecked in close range. Any CC warband will walk all over this TAG.

    5. I like another BS14 unit. I don't like that it got stuck on the unit we got that will never utilize it well.

    6. My friend, this one is a reach.

    I like your enthusiasm but with 7 shots I can only see it cemented that the Shakush is uninspiring. It is shaping up to be a unit that people will constantly post threads asking how to make it work and the reply will be that it doesn't but boy howdy does it look cool.
     
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  5. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Fan service? Did you read the thread title? ;)
     
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  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I just hope if it's limited to Ramah Task Force that it's actually limited to Ramah Task Force. Not handed out to other parties Dashat.
     
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  7. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    Well its also in RTF and it seemed stupid to start another thread about the same unit but in a different sectorial.

    I don't play HB but I wouldn't take this TAG in HB if I did. I've got enough experience with generic TAGs to know the suck regardless of faction/sectorial.
     
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  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    That looks pretty great. MOV 6, BS 14, a very relevant gun selection, ARM 6/S 3 and less than 60pts? And it's a specialist and has tactical awareness? I think this is a very strong option tbh.
     
  9. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Sir, I am not going to discount your experiences with TAGs in the previous and current N3 edition. But it seems clear to me that CB is attempting to make TAGs more viable in N4 with the following changes:
    1. 15 order limit in ITS: This will limit the number of warbands people will have to deal with and limit the total number of orders that can be used. Units with Tactical Awareness (like TAGs) will be even more valuable.
    2. Critical Change: This is very important as armor is no longer ignored on a critical. Arm will have a greater impact on units.
    3. Armor is now cheaper in N4: This is the first TAG profile we have seen in N4. It is massively cheaper than we are used to. At 58 points with no Fury discounts, you get 3 Arm 6 structure with a BS 14 AP spitfire. I would be surprised if other N4 TAGs do not get cheaper as well or get a lot of new stuff in addition.
    4. Easier to get cover: Cover in Code One is easier to obtain and there is a good chance this will be the same in N4. This will make it easier for TAGs to get cover.
    5. States not as permanent: This part is not 100% clear yet, but it looking more like states like Immobilization and Isolation could be reversible. CB seems to be moving away from things being knocked out with one shot (with the exception of Monofilament weapons, which have a lot of limitations). Glue Guns are no longer permanent. I could definitely see that other weapons like Jammers and E/M to no longer be permanent as well.
    But honestly, we really don't know how TAGs will play in N4. But it feels like CB is trying to promote them as much as possible with the changes.
     
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  10. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I terribly mind it in Dashat, especially now that they are being saddled with Tactical window, which I think may be worse for them than it is for Haqq.
     
  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Nah. My gripe is that Haqqislam received a better/advanced/upgraded profile that is not available to it's own Vanilla forces, but the NA2 (watch as I play the Faction Identity card!) mercenary group does have it available. It's just an annoying story inconsistency issue on my part.
     
  12. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    I could swear this was discussed a month or three ago... I was about to give my thoughts but we likely already had this conversation haha.
     
  13. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Nah. That was probably why Hassassin Bahram even needed a TAG. :)
     
  14. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    From the sounds of it, all TAGs are getting cheaper. So if the Maggie comes down in points (which seems likely) at least for RTF the Shakush is dumb. If all TAGs come down in points the Shakush starts to look even worse honestly.

    I'd gladly pay more for a TAG that is more than Gunarmor. I would have thought HB's TAG would have been more than Gunarmor but it appears not to be the case.

    Sure CB could pull a move where the sectorial versions have unique profiles I guess.
     
  15. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    There was a typo. They left Impersonation off of the profile.
     
  16. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    We did.

    Dont be so cruel. Somebody will believe that.
     
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  17. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    Guys, let's take a moment and breath.

    Shakush and Maggie are not the same, they don't belong to the same sectorials. Both have pleanty of space inside Haqq.
    On top of that, we didn't see all N4 profiles, the times they are a-changin', and by the looks of it, lot's of power armors :D
     
  18. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Actually Maggie and Shaku are both in Ramah Task Force, going by the graphics. ;)
     
  19. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    Maybe for HB it feels kind of unique but in RTF without the Maggie getting a profile change or the Shakush being revealed to have a profile that isn't literally just the unnested rules for TAGs and two gun options of dubious use they are basically doing the exact same thing. And apparently probably not for the point difference it currently appears to be.

    And we haven't even gotten to see what is changing about the Alfasid because if it gets cheaper then that will be another knock against the Shakush. At least for RTF, HB your mileage may vary.
     
    #99 Geodron, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  20. Ariwch

    Ariwch Tournament benthotic lurker

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    That's because Shakush is not intended to do "basic TAG stuff". It's our new de facto premium HI that will do "basic premium HI stuff" and due to the way more sound silhouette value it can move around the table freely, unlike the Maggy. And has str 3 instead of usual HI 2, also can score points in some scenarios where HI cannot.

    Finally, HB has no magharibas.

    With its price 58 points I would prefer it to maghariba like half of cases when Maggy worth be fielded and would think of fielding it in many cases when Maggy is strictly out of the question.
     
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