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Hassassin Escalation

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by ambisinister, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    He might not be optimal for this opponent or this scenario, but I may try and put an Ayyar in my list just because the model looks cool and it seems like it'd be fun to use. We'll see.
     
  2. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I'm considering supporting an Asawira Haris with a 3 man Govad core. Since I don't need the haris profile, what would you recommend for the 3rd member? one of the hackers or maybe just the basic profile?
     
  3. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    That's a defensive Haris....I mean, a defenisve Fireteam. Meaning the hacker would need a decent Repeater network to hack anything. Do you have one?

    If no, I'd be in for another long-ranged weapons, most liely 2nd Sniper Rifle.

    Isn't there an option to take more than 3 Govad in this case?
     
  4. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Certainly there is, i’m just not sure I want to spend another 40ish points to get them up to 5.
     
  5. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that JSA doesn't use their -6 guys in straight firefights. All of them have advanced deployment rules, meaning that Govads will have to do some heavy repositioning to hit them, and even then they will be at extra -3.

    Ryukens will really want to lock middle part of the board down with SF and they will make sure you can't just outrange them from near your DZ. Ninjas (of all popular varieties) and onis won't play on your terms. Shikami are highly unlikely, but they are not kind of model that engages in shootouts across the board.

    I'm of the opinion that Ghazi are more likely to be helpful when it comes to threatening all those models. The issue here is really about making right choices between covering your DZ from nasty TO guys and dislodging Ryukens in the middle all the while not feeding Rui Shi / Kempei. Actually you can try to use Fiday to threaten forward deploying units, but HD folks can make that order-intensive, risky or both.

    Then again, those units are almost autoincludes (although Fiday doesn't have a lot of good targets in this MU), so I'm probably not saying anything useful.

    I would like to also point out that surprise HI bumrush strategy with little in the way of -6ing will easily turn Govads into overpriced Ghulams unless you will make use of some special rules making their MSV1 useful regardless of the opponent's army composition (Jungle terrain, engine/core rooms etc.). WTB Sandstorm Grenades
    But if you feel confident, go for it. Frankly, the entire selling point of Govads is lack of competition in HB. Meaning you may end up having too many things for your signature units to do for them to be able to tackle even more issues.

    On Muyib minelayer, if you get decent mileage from that, I'd go with AP+E/Maulers specifically because of possibly HI-heavy army.
     
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  6. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    @Barrogh You raise some valid points regarding Govads in this match up. Going to the completely other bonkers edge of this spectrum, does anyone think a list like this has legs?

    [​IMG] Muyib Party
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
    [​IMG] MUYIB (X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
    [​IMG] MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] MUYIB Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
    [​IMG] ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44)
    [​IMG] ASAWIRA Doctor Plus (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] BARID Hacker (Hacking Device) Lieutenant Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    I don't think it's optimal in its current state but I'm wondering if it's even fixable. It's specialist light, and lacks attack options outside of 32 inches. I don't even have a single muyib profile with a panzerfaust. I could squeeze some more points out of the list by replacing the the asawira doctor with Leila. Doing that I could add a rafig. I could upgrade the fanous to a rafiq and additionally add a daylami. I could use the leftover points to give my fiday mines. I could also turn the LGL muyib into a specialist, or keep him and flip one of the minelayers or HRLs instead. I don't know, what do you guys think?
     
  7. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] My Take
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MUYIB Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] MUYIB (Minelayer) Rifle + Light Shotgun, D.E.P. Antipersonnel Mines, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] ASAWIRA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 44)
    [​IMG] LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31)
    [​IMG] AL-DJABEL Rifle + Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW, Knife. (0 | 35)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
    [​IMG] DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    This is the list I was talking about in another thread. I've run in 5-6 times with a lot of success. Zero losses and some punishing wins. The lack of specialists doesn't hurt as bad as it looks. I often drop Leila from the link to go hunting, or use the reduced link to shuttle her up to objectives. Same with the Asawira Haris.

    Just remember to use smoke and duck between cover.
     
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  8. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and a big thing for me is playing the Objectives almost exclusively. I tend to do a lot of killing, but every Order is spent moving to complete objectives. I know that sounds basic, but I have played a few people that focus too hard on killing my guys. It hasn't worked yet.
     
  9. deathklockk

    deathklockk Strange, but not a stranger.

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    I may take that last one for a test drive this weekend, Gregg. I was looking for ideas for a second list.
     
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  10. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I been wondering about the appeal of Djebel over the mine profile. Is he used primarily to take out harder targets with his improved MA and viral CC? Like in the list you shared, those 4 extra points could turn one of the Ghulam into a doctor which would give the link some added resiliency.
     
  11. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Not in my case.
    He can take down more difficult targets, but unless you go MA L4 (i.e. Burst 2 in CC), it will be still pretty difficult to take down a multi-Wound / multi-Structure target. Viral is Viral, true, but that kind of targets tend to have decent BTS anyway.
    This reminds me of the days when we had a Morat player around, and a number of times it was my Lasiq drawing a bead on Kornak Gazarot... and failing to wound, due to Kornak's high BTS (9)... in the end, I consider al-Djabel's Viral CCW to be mostly a gimmick. When I field him, he does most of his work with the rifle, light shotgun or knife.

    Not to mention, he isn't any less Order-hungry than any of the less famous Fida'i.


    The problem I see with Fidays is they need lots of Orders to elliminate rather few targets. Which is all fine and dandy with the fluff (even in a crowd you can realistically expect zero collateral damage if you're going after your intended target with a knife), but not that shiny on a gaming table. If your opponent got a bit careless with his placement, you sure can get a around that a little, taking two, maybe three targets at once with Mine or Shotgun template, but that's it: you can't do it in CC, really.

    And I kinda like it about Fidays. It keeps them balanced. It keeps them having limitations.
    Yes, a Fiday can murderize a model in the enemy DZ, and he's very difficult to stop - but it is not likely he'll be able to murderize half of the opposing force single-handed. And some targets are, honestly, beyond his capability to realiably take them down (TAGs, for the most obvious example). So, you need ot be pretty careful choosing a target for the Fiday.
    And it is good :)
     
    #91 Errhile, Jun 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  12. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Let me know what you think!

    Increased BS and CC make him a little harder to deal with. I usually don't take him, and often think two Fiday is too much. I've ran 2 mine profiles and a mine + BSG profile with similar success.

    Gotta disagree, but it might be because I get pretty ballsy with my Fiday Deployment. I don't often spend more than 2 orders on one Fiday. Doing this will either kill a few enemies or it won't, but it often leaves the Fiday in a strong position that will force your opponent to spend orders and deal with them. (I don't usually do this until they have already spent orders trying to discover my Fiday).

    For instance, my last game I deployed second, allowing Al-Djabel to threaten my opponent's right flank (which sucked in his final counter-deploy. The second Fiday now shines as my reserve model, threatening the left flank.

    On my active turn, Mine Fiday shotguns 3 fusiliers and Al kills a hacker. I spent 3 of my 16 remaining orders to do this. The Fiday was killed in ARO, but my opponent was put into retreat by the end of the turn.
     
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  13. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    A most splendid job, then, effendi!
     
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  14. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! @Errhile I think you're points are very valid and often play games without Fiday because of these and similar reasons. I also find that switching up how often and how many I take really leaves my regular opponents on their heels.
     
  15. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I must admit I play Fiday relatively rarely.
    One, I don't want to become overly dependant on any given troop, so I tend to rotate through them (although I have to admit, having come form the QK, I always do bring a Fireteam of some sort...). Two, I have three armies to play (HB, QK and CJC) thorugh which I do rotate on a fixed schedule.
     
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  16. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    The struggle persists. I too am playing a few armies at the moment: Vanilla Haqqislam, QK, HB, DBS, and I’ll probably be playing Starco soon. RTF is anxiously awaited.
     
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  17. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Those are all basically the same faction. Once you start Starco you can add Nomads to the list!

    Yeeees, very much so. You are not alone in this!
     
  18. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Ugh. I don't have enough space for all my models! The only Nomad I currently own is the Iguana. I haven't been able to convince myself to take the extra step with RTF on the Horizon.
     
  19. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you can find some junk around the house you can get rid of... You don't really need that front door, do you? Boom, I just bought you an approximately two inch wide strip of floor space.
     
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  20. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Vertically stacked storage works fine for me :) my 4 armies (that includes headstart into Ramah) (plus a box of markers / civvies / mercs / etc plus the "under construction" box) take 21x22cm footprint, and maybe 50cm in height on my bookshelf :P
     
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