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hardcases viability?

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by dhellfox, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    they have them (for sale) at my local store but from what i can make of its stats it seems to be a one shot ambush gamble but how viable are they?
     
  2. Harlock

    Harlock Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    For me is one of best options for table control.
    With shootgun and camo ambush
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    They're awesome

    12 points for a Camouflaged infiltrating shotgun is just nuts, they'd be worth it even without ambush camo, as they are being able to add two extra camo markers to the midfield and have a budget alpha striker is amazing.

    Some people like the rifle for Suppressive Fire but I've always leaned on the shotgun for it's extra offensive capability, that +6 range combined with Camo and Surprise Shot can really even the odds against higher BS enemies.
     
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  4. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    To me they fill multiple roll (always with light shotgun) :
    - ambush camo act like a fake mine. Your opponent have to detect it if he come close because it can be a chasseur or a mine (you need to play some mine/chasseur and some experience in placement to be able to make that credible)
    - in ARO, the hardcase is a formidable FT killer. Any midfield triad/harris that come close will end up taking a template, make him kill more point than he is worth in a single ARO
    - counter offensive : if your opponent make a single mistake in placement, he is well placed to take advantage of it and kill some guys
     
  5. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    what about their bow, other than sneak attacking them in the A i don't know how practical it is.
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The bow is a neat party trick if your opponent overextends a trooper and you end up able to slide into their back arc, but it's rarely worth investing many orders to use it rather than just opening up with the shotgun. Bear in mind that tactical bows don't really add to the trooper's points cost so don't feel like anything is being wasted by not using it.

    If you go for the rifle version I guess the bow does at least give you a nice dangerous +3 ARO in the 0-8" range.
     
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  7. Zachilles

    Zachilles Well-Known Member

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    I've just started with vanillas Ariadna and the hardcase shotgun and liberto shotgun have been by far my best units for similar reasons.
     
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  8. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    The DA on the bow can help the hardcase punch a little above his weight class in ARO. He’s not going to be taking TAGs off the table or anything, but it makes low to mid armored models a little more vulnerable.
     
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  9. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    And the Bow is Anti-Material, which sometimes might be handy.
     
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  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I know it was lucky as hell, but I killed a Vet Kazak with the bow in ARO over the course of two orders yesterday at a tournament...

    In any case, Hardcases are great, especially when combined with other infiltrators, so your opponent never knows if they're getting a mine, a scarecrow, or a shotgun blast to the face when they interact with a camo marker.
     
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  11. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    I had a hardcase as part of a 10+ camo marker midfield yesterday during a tournament. Once your opponent starts realizing that there's more variety under those camo markers, it starts to make decisions very difficult.
     
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  12. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    I am slowly working towards playing Vanilla and as I toy with camo spam lists, and having played against a few, I have concerns over quick play. In a tournament with hard dice down times, camo spam seems like it could backfire. When the opponent CANT make good choices due to the unknown, it tends to slow down play.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Make your opponent make decisions promptly, basically.
     
  14. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    It can be a concern. While it is only anecdotal, during the tournament that I referenced in this post I was able to finish 2 of the 3 games. The third game probably was due to some slow play on both of our parts as well as being the final game. I would say keep some sort of timer handy to keep yourself aware of the time and be willing to call a judge over if necessary.
     
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  15. Zachilles

    Zachilles Well-Known Member

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    I actually ran into this last week playing a 20 camo marker TAK list. It's something that should't happen but absolutely does. it wasn't a tournament so not a situation where I could call a TO but a friendly pick-up game that became increasingly less friendly as I was hounding my opponent to make decision and more or less wrap up his turn.
     
  16. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    And the issue I have is there is a difference between intentional slow playing and being paralayzed by lack of information to make a decision on. It isn’t often talked about as a negative of playing a camo spam list. Say I haven’t even played against Morats before. There are certainly some nuances that I might miss that hurt me during a game (like hunting down the Lt only to find out they don’t care).

    It’s different against camo. The shell game is just, I know nothing and many players get paralyzed by not wanting to risk any move. This is why I take a Desperado with my USARF. I run him straight up the board. They either have to at least reveal some models or risk him doing terrible things. I can then work on the models that have revealed and go from there.

    But if someone has no frame of reference, it can drag on forever.
     
  17. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    It's super niche but a Bow is actually a good contributor to a Coordinated Order, burst 1 means you're not losing anything and you're shooting at PH13 with decent ammo. Find a few more Irregular buddies to shoot at that Kamau sniper and you're laughing.