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Haqqislam in N4

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    See also:
    - Jammers and E/M vs Morats
    - Hackers vs Ariadna
    - Shock vs Doctors and non-immune NWI Troops
    - Surprise Shots and Attacks vs Fireteams (camo, impersonation and Holo2 countered just by deciding to play a sectorial!)
     
    Errhile likes this.
  2. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I'm also a tournament player and to be honest I never felt a problem using Fidays against Alien races. It's just how it is in the rules and maybe I'm used to this. I also never felt like my Djabel did worse against Aliens - sure, it's a bit harder for him, but I don't remember any game in which this would make a big deal.
    And how some of people already wrote, in Infinity there are many counters and it just happens from time to time that your army list faces something that will be tougher to beat than something else. Some armies work better against others, some not.

    For me the typical problem, when playing with Vanilla, is facing Link Teams - and that's a really nasty set of counters ;) Still, it can be destroyed.

    So - sure, it would be nice to have a bit better impersonation vs Alien races, but if it would go with higher cost, then I'd rather leave it like it is.
    I definitely prefer Fiday over Speculo.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Exactly my point. If my opponent brings the right tools to beat me, good for them. They outplayed me. I want to lose by being outplayed. Not arbitrarily because of my opponent's faction choice.

    Morats pay points for isolation immunity. Nothing wrong with that. Alien factions don't pay any points, or have to make any strategic decisions or compromises, to be immune to IMP-1.

    Ariadna's lack of access to hackers, real HI, and TAGS is a weakness of their faction, not a feature.

    Again, if my opponent chooses to take ammo that works well against my army, good for them for making a good strategic choice.

    Well, no. Fireteams are one of the tools a sectorial can bring. Which fireteam(s) you bring are, yet again, a strategic choice. Sectorials aren't immune to surprise shot. Up to five of their units can be immune to surprise shot, until you kill two of them. And fireteams have their own weaknesses to balance their strengths.

    Well, sure, but this thread is explicitly about CB asking for suggestions as to how the rules should be changed.

    A lot of replies are essentially saying "it's not a big deal," which is fair enough. I still play Fidays and you won't hear me complaining when my opponent turns up playing CA or Tohaa. But nobody has identified any reason for the rule to exist in the first place. It's a rule that serves no in-game purpose and rewards an arbitrary factor (faction choice) rather than rewarding good strategic choices. Since they're asking for input for N4, I think the suggestion to remove the rule is a good one. Even though, sure, it's not a big deal.
     
  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    It's not a big deal.

    Taking a Fiday or a list with a Fiday is a tactical choice taken by the player. It's no different than msv versus prolific smoke/odd forces. Or when you do but they don't bring it.

    Also I need a point refund for every multi terrain model when "no one" uses it.

    Let's hope CB continues to honor their own fiction.
     
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  5. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    I'd much rather get missions honoring Aquatic or Jungle or Multiterrain that many of my Ariadna stuff has than refunds and making stuff bland. Make thematic units able to play to their strengths.
     
  6. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Yup, and with interest back form 2ed! It used to be much more expensive back in that day...

    :P
     
  7. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    The idea that list construction = outplaying is a little controversial tbh. Definitely not something I subscribe to.

    Personally I dislike hard rock paper scissors elements built into the system. IE, MSV2 just "beats" smoke completely by making it "pretty much not exist", same as Jammer and Veteran. Its a weak form of balance and unit construction. Mines beat smoke because they deny an area instead of a line of fire, and as such are a more interesting form of counterplay. Hoping N4 is more of the latter and less of the former, but tbh Corvus seems to be heading towards more hard counters.

    You don't get to complain about this one lol
     
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  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Only Avatar is immune to possession, not all CA TAGs. And if anything, it's a good question whether TAGs in general need even more weaknesses that are specific to them, especially 137 points one.

    Not only they pay in points, but also in opportunity to bring a viable army to a competition. Otherwise Veterans are usually limited tools you have to choose where to use, even if so many armies can bring one in the form of Krakot.

    I would like to point out that in tournaments you generally limited to 2 lists for 3-6 missions. Most of the time there's no meaningful strategic choice because you cannot afford to tailor to factions when you have missions to build for.

    Since we have some insight on how they threat input concerning one of the most broken things that currently exists in competitive tabletop games (that just so happens to exist in a Corvus Belli game), I wouldn't expect anything positive to come out of that.

    As for Imp-2 discussion, I'm still waiting for explanation why CA and Tohaa specifically need extra advantage against Haqq and HB (also specifically). Especially Tohaa who are probably already least vulnerable to things Fidays can do.
    Perhaps this applies to other hard counter interactions mentioned ITT. Lack of adequate answers to most of those questions making this kind of situation normal, for the record, does not make them any more justified, and Infinity design better somehow.
     
    #108 Barrogh, Jan 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
    QueensGambit likes this.
  9. CmdrSandmann

    CmdrSandmann Member

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    I've recently been thinking about Ramah, and specifically why it doesn't "click" for me like QK and HB do. This has nothing to do with powerlevel, but more with how I feel the components seem somewhat haphazardly thrown together. Just some collected thoughts about what I'd hope they'll be like in N4 (totally subjective of course):

    The Ghulam-Salad-link Team is somewhat weird. I'm ok with Naffatuns and the Namur joining them, but although cool, I don't think the Khawarij fit - and I'd rather have the Zhayedans take their place (and also I'd wish for them to loose the Automedkit and get correspondingly cheaper).

    Nahabs, Hakims, and Mukthar are fine and fit into the sectorial well enough. Janissaries and Hortlak too. Tarik (providing that Fatality L2 stays the same) could maybe just count as a Khawarij, or only the Rifle profile could be a Wildcard? Would rein in Fat2 a bit.

    Maggie is a weird fit for a sectorial that is supposed to be a quick response Taskforce, same with the AlFassid.

    What doesn't gel (again, for me) are the Monstruckers, Carmen and Wild Bill. All three seem to fit better into QKs Mercenary theme. The Monstrucker makes the Najjarun really unnecessary, and I'd rather have the Naj brought up to that level. Wild Bill just leaves me baffled. Why? Why does he count as a Janissary?? Is there any fluff about him that I just missed?
     
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  10. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    I second that, and I'd also include Al Fasids there since they are veteran mercs in lore. I'd take a Fasid in my QK lists over an Azra'il any day of the week unless CB are gonna revamp them.
     
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  11. CmdrSandmann

    CmdrSandmann Member

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    Those too, yeah.
     
  12. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    I think HI is the problem insite haqqislam there's no point on using them, just for fun.

    Azrail needs some skills as full auto lvl1 for example. we are paying 41 or 39 points for BS 13 and S5 just that. I dont care if they cost 50 points but make them an option for playing them or at least insite sectorial make they linkable in haris. I got all the S5 in haqqislam they are incredible models I just want to play them, but I feel bad because these profile is like wasting points.

    In the other hand we got Alfasid, in my opinion (you can share or not) he is a bad tool box, is a high tec HI but he is moving 10-5 (he needs to be cheaper if he is moving 10-5) he got the HMG and LGL for 53 points but it is a waste, when we got in ramah the ghulam LGL or ghulam hmg linked in 5, theres no way to put him insite a list, moreover we use tariq for 55 insite a 5 men link... Also I think that veteran lvl 1 and sixth sense doesnt make any impact, that skills are overcosted and I don't use them normally.
     
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  13. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    Yeah, I mean, when I look at the Morats' Full Auto L2 Sogarat I don't care that he costs around 60 points, I can build a list with such a model in mind because it just looks so much fun to play and it is a more reliable ARO piece with the permanent -3 for any opponent who tries to shoot him. If nothing else, just give our HIs more loadouts with some custom skills.
     
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  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I really like that Azrail are so cheap for not having any skills.
     
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  15. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    My N4 wish list is to reduce rules bloat without reducing faction or model flavor. And, on a selfish note, improve other less stellar models like the Zhayedan by adding more abilities or reduce their points.
     
    #115 sololobo, Feb 3, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  16. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I just realized my greatest Haqqislam wish for N4: Ava 2 for Farzans in Vanilla! Choosing between the FO and the mine layer is so difficult!
     
  17. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    That sounds like exactly the situation wanted. ;)
     
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  18. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Are they though? Lets take the ap hmg and compare to an hmg jann. For 1 point less you lose AP and 1 arm, but gain 4-4 move, religious, +3cc, a ccw, +1 phys, and S2. Some things are arguable, like knife vs ccw, and S5 vs S2 (although the mobility options for s2 models seem best imo).
     
  19. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Exactly, you only need to pay one point for AP.
     
  20. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

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    This right here, although for me it's between the CoC and minelayer. More infiltrators for vanilla Haqq!
     
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