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Haqqislam in N4

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    For the purpose of FTF, it's effectively CH2:Camo/ODD that also works against dodge AROs and ignores MSV but is vulnerable to Sixth Sense instead. It also requires additional orders to be spent if you want to make use of the MOD multiple time in the same turn.

    Holoecho L2 seems really useful the more I read about it, but it certainly requires more attention and finesse compared to passive modifier skills.

    I feel that Veteran L1 would nicely round out the Ayyar's profile to make him completely self-sufficient and enable him to walk past jammers.
     
    #81 Knauf, Aug 30, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Well-Known Member

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    I would love to read a battle report illustrating this. The argument makes sense, but I'm having a hard time seeing how his mobility/gunfighting is better than a camo infiltrator's, especially given the extra point cost. @Solar, can I talk you into posting a battle report next time your Ayyar MVPs?
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Camo infiltrators can be hemmed in by mines and Perimeter Weapons, the Ayyar just hurls a Holoecho at them!

    Camo infiltrators are 1W weaklings, the Ayyar can tank an ARO for that dash to the objective.

    Camo infiltrators generally have short range weaponry or burst 2 sniper weapons. Ayyar has a Marksman Rifle letting him outrange most common weapons, but still get a +3 when sneaking into an HMG/sniper's +0 range.

    Camo infiltrators are threatened by chain rifles and nanopulsers at short range, the Ayyar can tank them whilst wiping out the target with twin viral pistols.

    Ayyars don't care if your target has any level of MSV, they still shoot just as well!

    Basically an Ayyar can afford to be aggressive in a lot of situations that would be a death sentence for your average skirmisher.
     
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  4. jsuso

    jsuso Well-Known Member

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    Ayyars are pretty neat as they are right know
     
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  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Will do!
     
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  6. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

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    I don't think it's a matter of "Ayyar vs. normal camo infiltrator, which is better?" kind of issue, but the fact that the Ayyar exists as an *option* alongside other camo infiltrators, is good enough for me. I think the Ayyar is fine as he is now.

    I would like some cleaning up of the holoprojector rules though since that took a hell of reading up for me when I was just starting up, but I'm going to have to think a bit more on that before I can comment how.
     
  7. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'm not sure how to word a post, so I'll just address presented points separately, although it's not the most helpful thing to do.

    That's probably the most reliable use for Holo2, which is the fact I cannot make peace with.
    But regardless, in order to get to your point of interest you must expend enough orders, and if you have them, there are likely ways to tackle problems like that differently. I mean, it's gonna be order-intensive, but when you compete with this entire footslogging across the board while not doing anything else thing, you have some leeway.

    Same goes to Chain Rifles / Nanopulsers argument, with the caveat that Ayyar's marker is actually less useful against those than Camo.

    Also, there are often more than one WB, mine and whatever else like that on your way, so you'll have to find another way to deal with most of them, second wound or not. And like I said, you can afford doing so when you don't have to spend a turn just walking.

    Marker layer is also a thing though. Ayyar sort of has it too, but he will also potentially move through more AROs.

    Besides, in Vanilla we have units that can do the same, and depending on what you choose, they will reach the target faster, shoot better, tank nastier AROs etc. All for comparable price.

    Well, we don't have to compare Ayyar to generic infiltrators. Typical Haqq infiltrators have options besides SMGs, SRs and shotguns.
    0 range of HMGs and SRs is a rifle range, you don't need MMR for that, and then weapons like those are usually linked, meaning you don't really want to take on them with your Ayyar - it won't be favourable for him, and order investment you've made to get him into this position probably has better applications than to be risked like that.

    Which is to say "not stellar".
    They do care about links, which unlike MSVs are everywhere and unless N4 radically changes the approach, linking anything with anything else giving all kinds of opportunities to repair Fireteams up to 4 or 5 people to keep SSL2 will become even more of a trend. This is reason number 1 why I am not sold on Ayyar's shooting, the other being his reliance on "consumable" Holo2 state he can otherwise leverage to make those unimpeded movements (unless opponent guesses right).

    An Ayyar needs to be aggressive because he takes orders from objective grabber's support whose job is to ensure your grabber doesn't need to make Hail Marys. Basically, Ayyar solves problems that he himself creates in the first place.

    There are interesting things Ayyar has over his competition, be it more interesting footsloggers in Vanilla or just more conservative playstyle in general. I just wish those things weren't not so gimmicky under current ruleset. Mostly talking about Holo2 rules here. If you are making a unit that is supposed to be Turn 2+ player, giving him something that helps your army to stay in the game up until that point would be nice.
     
    #87 Barrogh, Sep 2, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  8. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

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    I dont like ramah but I'm playing it these days and one of the biggest porblems with the link teams are the movement. We can mix climing plus + superjump and these things are difficult to play.

    I mean you cant move the ghulam and superjump the kawarij at the same time. Ramah is a complicated but with this it is even more complicated.

    So my point in N4 is that superjump and climing plus count as simple movment.

    What do you think about this? Would this borke the game?
     
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  9. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    Speaking in terms of balance... and with this only being a problem with the super customizable link team of crazy points efficiency that is the Ghulam salad-team... I think it's a fair drawback to have these link fillers/toolboxes hold back the super-jumpers. If you need your whole link to super-jump it's way around the board, I don't see a problem with having to pay for super-jump on every member. As it stands, you can still take advantage of super jumping over walls and such to get unexpected angles or negate cover while taking advantage of the full 5-member suite of bonuses, you just don't get to use it as much while moving about the board.

    My issue in regards to this interaction is only in how strange it is thematically. Why can't the rest of the members move while some jump? Because rules.
     
  10. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I actually agree, but regardless of that I still think that Ramah links are stupid :P
     
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