Haqqislam Fluff: "Are we the good guys?"

So, to sum it up... We Haqq aren't exactly The Good Guys.
We're just Good Enough Guys.

 

My answer to the primary thread title question on it's own would be to change the question.

"Is there a faction of good guys in Infinity?"

To which I would say: no.

 

I can definitely see how Haqqislam is presented as the "better" guys, not necessarily the good guys. Some of the aforementioned things, such as the Janissaries being taught from a very early age are based in historical events/facts and is also leaving some room for interpretation (Haqqislam Janissaries are mentioned as being orphans very often, not abducted kafirin).

That said, the Hassassin are definitely not a typical element in a good guy repertoire, and the Sultanate is presented as corrupt and in general morally lacking.

The smaller Human Sphere factions are definitely presented in a frendlier way than the big two, though.

 

The biggest flaw in Haqqislam is not giving Odalisques the Elite Troop class. They are more than qualified and they DESERVE to be allowed to Kidnap HVTs!!!

 

You'd then have HVTs literaly begging - on their knees! - to be kidnapped, you know.

;)

 

For me, it's the division-competition of the different regions/factions wich form Haqqislam. The non-involving yet oversee policy of the High Command makes for a peculiar and somewhat frail status quo. The Caliphate is over indulgent in their goal of study and illumination; the Sultanate is from just shady (sometimes) to corrupt (most of the time) and their income comes from their deals inside the Caravassaries and piracy; and the Shanate is openly ruled by mafia families and a lot of the people there are outright savages. Also the Haqq secret services use assasination and fear as their weapons and, ultimately, can't be controled. So, there's always a fight for power that hinders Haqqislam to reach futher goals as a bigger power in the HumanSphere.

But that's exactly what makes Haqqislam so AWESOME! If each faction were somewhat different from what they're now, the nation as a whole would fall apart and lose its status in the Sphere. To be fair, hassassins are a good deterrent in this power struggle. So yeah, that's Haqq's bigggest flaw yet its even bigger strenght. This is what drove me to Haqqislam and I'm positive that with each new book, I'm loving the fluff more and more.

 

Did you mean Khanate? Because that sounds like Khanate...

 

It takes some willpower (exactly 14) to allow enough of morbid or fearsome actions to make your nation feel safe from extraterrestial danger, and even more to make your people feel good or at least indifferent about it. With time, people will see it differently even if it would be outrageous to other factions, but that would be a hypocrisy feom their side, eh?
If anything, Haqqislamite people are strong, and their willingness to take such actions make them strong. In words of col. Conrad from Spec Ops: The Line, "it takes a strong man to deny what is right in front of him".

 

Yep, that's right. Book in spanish, answer in english

 

After reading all this, I'd argue that the setting is well-written enough to make very few people out as outright villains. Nobody really does moustache-twirling.

With that said, I think that Haqqislam as a movement feels like one with an overall positive impact on the Human Sphere.

 

Well, let's put it in pragmatic terms: Islam as a worldview is a touchy topic. That happens when its primary source material literally says that lying to non-followers is righteous (Yes, that is true and provable). The culture is skewed by a lot of deception and fierce dogmatic feuds. This is where the tropes of warlike desert thieves and tricky sheiks come from after all.
An aspect starkly lacking in Haqqislam for obvious reasons.
CB knew they were playing with fire when they conceived of the idea. As such, they quietly pretended to 're-invent' the culture as some kind of secular humanist renaissance, so they could say "They're Islamic, but without all that nasty baggage the naysayers think of". Then had to go on to explain what that meant, without offending anyone if possible.

What they didn't realize: Most of the 'positive' elements they were thinking of came from the culture that existed before the rise of Islam. Arabic focus on commerce, knowledge, and learning came from the Persian and Carthaginian influences, and the middle east actually went into decline after Islam took hold in that region. A tricky spot, given that Islam is currently so knitted into the culture of that area today, and detaching the two would upset just as many people. The result: Play the middle and pretend the secular-humanist reform brought it back and SOMEHOW Islam was the catalyst behind a pre-Islamic cultural revival.
See where this could present a problem?
The result: Haqq is a very fun-sounding faction, but it isn't actually reflective of the culture it tries to capture :(.
I almost wish they could amalgamate Haqqislam into some kind of trade-union faction. Design-wise, a mid-tech level trade syndicate is brilliant and fits as a competing interest in human sphere politics. I suspect that is what CB had initially planned to make the faction's political niche. Unfortunately, Haqqislam, loses its flavor the more it resembles a commercial organization because the middle-eastern culture they've tried to base it on isn't really actuated by commerce, which makes the 'greedy cheating capitalists' paradigm unobtainable.

Please don't mistake this as a rant against Haqqislam. I don't think badly of the faction; I simply don't know how to rectify the serious gap in culture they created for themselves and still make it resemble the "1001 nights meets mecha" (no pun intended) paradigm they keep wanting to have. It seems to me they will have to drop one or the other, and I don't begrudge their choice since a lot of people like this faction for different reasons.

 

I think this is a gross overgeneralization and misrepresentation of several cultures and religious expressions across several centuries of history, I believe it should be reconsidered.

I should also remind that contemporary politic discussions are not allowed in the forum.

As far as the topic goes, Haqqislam, while inspired from the golden age of Islam, shares no connection with any contemporary Islamic country or religious group and should be considered its own culture born from the fictional, but quite dramatic foundations of their nation.

I am not sure why this is not obvious it is like trying to find connections with Military Orders and the Military orders of the past they share name with.

 

I agree. I would rather that Haqqislam was more like the Middle East before Islam existed. The idea of Persian, Babylonian, Syrian, Israeli, Philistine, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Sudan, etc...Sounds much more interesting in my view. Maybe that would make me want to play the faction or give me conversion ideas. The Middle East & northern Africa lost alot of what made them unique as cultures. Plus Islam did other things that is a topic for a different discussion. Namely against my people the Jews & Christians.

I do think that having the populace of Bourak and Haqqislamites in general believe this reinvented ideal of themselves & their religion is actually a good lore point. Haqqislam tries to forget it's dark past but yet clings on to certain aspects of it at the same time. Khawarijs & Janissaries are two examples of this. One look into the historical record of these troops and you'll see what I mean. It is as if the government, Hassassins & the citizens are trying to forget the past by replacing it with an alteration of the same thing. So that in the future when one thinks or hears the word Khawarij or Janissary they will only think of the current iteration never knowing or caring about the previous incarnation that the unit was born from.
https://human-sphere.com/index.php?title=Janissary
"Its members are recruited from Funduq orphanages and among children of non-Haqqislamites freely donated to the service of Haqqislam. The Government accepts these children to convert them to the one true faith and as a sign of their parents’ commitment and loyalty. In colonies located in some of the most inhospitable areas of Bourak, many dhimmi parents, followers of other religions, give one of their children away for them to have a better education in the city and, with it, better future prospects. Some of these kids are sent to high-performance training centers around Funduq, where they are educated in the Haqqislamite creed and the military life. Young Janissaries are raised into solid warriors and staunch believers who reject the faith of their biological parents, vowing instead to defend Haqqislam’s ideals to the death."
Why is being a believer in the "one true faith" important to a secular humanist ideal? Secular humanism is against such things as religionist dogma, supernaturalism & superstition according to wikipedia. It embraces human reason, secular ethics & philosophical naturalism. It reminds me of the Sadducees of the Jewish Sanhedrin which did not believe in neither angel nor spirit nor resurrection of the dead. In other words secular humanism is anti-God & science among other aspects takes that place in a secular humanist heart.

If Haqq was truly secular humanist why is making the children reject the faith of their parents so important? You can't mix religious belief in God with the ideals that rail against it like secular humanism. This is where the problem with Haqqislam's teachings lie. They are trying to mix two things that can't coexist together. Oil does not mix with water but is separate from it. They are attempting a balancing act that is hindering and preventing themselves from true growth that they say they are trying to achieve. Ye cannot serve God and a teaching that is completely against the very idea of His existence. Wikipedia states supernaturalism as one of the things that secular humanism rejects. It denies the intervention & existence of spirits. Therefore their whole belief system is botched & broken because of this.

You can do good deeds, have academic & societal growth without proscribing to this mindset of secular humanism. Yet in an effort to erase the past they have introduced this way of thinking in order to appear more progressive and changed. When all that it has done is muddied the waters further. Now that things have gone on like this for so long it has become the status quo and the powers that be are intent on keeping it that way.

Each faction has dark aspects to it that the lore points out in order for each nation to appear morally gray. Some like the continuation of Communism in Yu Jing/Greater China is more obviously darker than say Ariadna at first glance. But there is evil/hypocrisy in all of the factions. I think Haqqislam and the Tohaa are alike in some ways. Painting an image that showcases themselves to be a bastion that is uplifting people & species across the universe. But when you scrutinize them they are full of dead mens' bones and the same sins of the past they swore they left behind & preach against others who commit them. Haqq & Tohaa are two sides of the same coin in my view. And Haqq's advancements in the biological fields over other G5 nations is also another similarity the two factions share.

I agree with your complete above post as well Wroshyr. Like the Tau from Warhammer 40k. Where philosopher kings unquestionably dictate the societal structure of a species guiding them through pheromones to bring others under the same mindset they have implanted in the conscience of their people. Wait that sounds alot like the Tohaa to me. Even the use of pheromones seems to be on the nose.

 

@psychoticstorm this is going nowhere good. Please lock this thread before it descends into (further) overt racism as it inevitably will.

If you don't want to acknowledge the racism, the ban on contemporary political discussion is sufficient grounds for thread lock.

 

I will agree it does not go anywhere good.

So this is a last warning for this discussion to stop.

 

I'm mostly curious why an almost 4 year old thread got necro'd for red text. It already had a nice and quiet death and now it's been summoned up from the depths.

 

Hah! There are no good guys in this world. Haqq are just a guys. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Very elude to show their full picture and act bold in some questions like bigger factions like PanO and YuJing.
Some of haqq forces act like end justifies the means.
I think, this is already not about good and bad. As people said before, everything is gray with them.
Or you can look at them as on eastern carpet with lots of different patterns in different parts.

And you can make your own story for your forces. Your squad.
I have one, if I would buy at least something to play... T-T

 

Eh, on one hand I can say all great story telling is derived off of history, cherry picked reality, exaggerated stereotypes. On the other, reality of the modern day events and being an American I refuse to play YJ knowing I may be sent off to fight China. Each to there own. But, good gravy, those models are awesome! lol

Haqq is a very open but some what based faction that gives CB a lot of writing space. It’s a blessing and a curse. And, so far I think they have done a great job.

As for the good guy trope I would say we just haven’t been exposed to the darker side of Haqq just yet. I used to play Tau, another game faction, that was considered the “good guys.” I haven’t kept up with them, but I’m sure the writers have gleaned more of there underbelly by now. Same can be construed here. Give it time. Maybe we can infer and use those assumptions to strike up a great fan fiction novel or manga.

 

Agreed. I wish that there was a universe/franchise that used a faction based on pre-islamic middle-east & north africa. Any representations always seem to be islamic wether sci-fi or fantasy these days.

As someone who likes Tau and still like them even though I dislike the Ethereal due to how they control their citizens. Philosopher Kings in lieu of Plato Republic. I have no want of removing Haqqislam form Infinity. And I think the old lore bits did showcase a dark side hidden from view. I disagree with changing the lore to omit these bits from the unit's lore. I mean there has to be some corrupt officials in the government of Haqq that patreon human traffickers so that Haqqislam gets a renewable source of citizens and manpower to keep up with the hyperpowers of PanO & Yu Jing. I think an Infinity story showcasing some of the dark side of Haqqislam would be an interesting read or of any faction for that matter.

I do like Yu Jing's HI models too. White Company has given me an excuse to pick up some of the models to play with my PanO force. I don't care to play the faction either. Though I really good conversion idea might get me to buy a couple of models.