1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Happy Thread : Liu xing!

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ObviousGray, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    1,349
    I think my favorite profile is the 32 point boarding shotgun. 4-4 mov and it can be pretty brutal. Just watch out for hackers.
     
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,094
    Likes Received:
    9,566
    I dunno, I'm kinda underwhelmed. Though Bioimmunity makes it immune to normal and Viral mines...

    It really feels like a Hackable Tiger to me.
     
    Henshini, Space Ranger and Modock like this.
  3. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    212
    While i can understand your point of view. And agree with it to an extent. (As i wished for 2 wounds too.) I've chosen to look at it from a different point of view. While it is indeed everything you and others have said. I'm looking at it as a more favourable door kicker than a Tiger. While the Tiger is a better gun fighter. You aren't really wanting to breach an armoury with a Tiger. But that higher amour/ BTS and pseudo 2nd wound allows it to take a hit. Great when there are templates and shotguns in the DZ. And as i said earlier, when it dies. It frees up a space in the combat group.

    Also having specialist profiles with decent combat weapons means it can fight it's way to an objective and still perform the objective.

    And personally. Although it's only theory at this point. I think i may have found my landing zone clearing unit to replace my Oniwaban so my Tiger MSR can drop into opponents DZ to shoot mimetic sniper shots into opponent's midfield unit's backs again. The threat of CC, TO and BS replaced by greater survive-ability and most likely multi rifle. While hackable is a concern while that deep into enemy lines, vanilla shouldn't have an issue considering the tools vanilla has at it's disposal.
     
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,094
    Likes Received:
    9,566
    You are very good at finding non-intuitive ways to use things!
     
    YueFei23 likes this.
  5. Warhydra

    Warhydra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    185
    One that doesn't die to a single Normal/AP/Shock/Viral/Breaker ARO anyway.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    8,269
    But 15% less likely to win in one order and roughly 42% more likely to take a wound (compared to a Fusilier and to a Swiss HMG, each unit in cover and at 10" distance) at a cost that is roughly 35% higher.

    With a victory margin of only 58% against a Fusilier that is where the Liu Xing caps out. Stronger units (such as a Fusilier in a 3-man fireteam) must be caught out of cover or engaged in thoroughly unfavourable rangebands.

    This in and of itself isn't a problem, but the price tag makes it a problem because 36 points is still a massive investment that the Ultra-Light HI suit hasn't managed to avoid.
    Looking at the numbers and if I theorize that ExplodeX is well worth the time, I'm thinking the only really worthwhile Liu Xing in vanilla would be the cheaper BSG in order to maximise by brawling at point blank and letting the cheaper Tiger Paramedic or Guilang FO handle button pushing. If only because the likelihood of a Liu Xing surviving is going to be fairly low where the Tiger can be more cautious and stack MODs in their favour.
     
    Kallas likes this.
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    806
    The Xiu Ling is just kind of frustrating because it is another almost good unit to add to the heap in Yu Jing. It is missing something to bring it all together and make it worth taking. If it wants to be a firefighter, then it needs some skills to that effect. If it wants to be a backline threat it needs a better PH to make combat jumping to its death a worthwhile endeavour on par with a backline Fiday or Oniwaban. If it wants to be a specialist then it needs to drop the extra-aggressive loadout and gain more utility.

    It just isn't doing any one thing well enough and has had too many stats dumped to be a premier combat unit, while still being too expensive to squander on a suicide run that may only end up with just it as a casualty. CB were too afraid of making a good platform for ExplodeX and I think that ended up hampering the design. Instead of getting a solid attacker or specialist, we ended up with a damp squib of a unit concept that either shouldn't exist or needed to be implemented in a gutsier way.

    In vanilla, we still have better forward-deploying attackers, it will remain to be seen in IA whether they see play. But at the end of the day, they aren't really doing any jobs well and they strike me as a general waste of the concept that CB pulled their punches on instead of aiming for a solid, cohesive design.
     
  8. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    212
    Don't really want to start something or disagree with your assessment of the unit. But one thing i need to say about this part of the statement. Is that you say the Xiu Ling is bad at combat jumping because it's PH 12. But then you compare it to Fiday and Oniwaban. Who are also PH 12. So....... What was the point? The drop troop is bad cause it's PH 12? Just trying to understand your statement is all.
     
  9. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    471
    Both the Oniwaban and the Fiday are good at getting where they're going: the Oniwaban has Superior Infiltration, giving it a PH15 roll for Infiltration, and the Fiday uses its WIP 15 for deployment zone Impersonation (or just automatic on the cusp of the enemy deployment zone).

    They're vaguely similar costs (Liu Xing is 32 minimum; Oniwaban is 37 minimum; Fiday is 29 minimum), but the Liu Xing needs support to deploy with comparable reliability. Explode LX will mostly likely be worthless if they deviate, and while the same is similar for the Oniwaban/Fiday, they can mitigate their failure odds by deploying safely (either in their own table half with the Oniwaban; outside the enemy DZ with the Fiday) - odds are that the Liu Xing can't use AD4 to guaratee an Explode LX goes off, it will almost certainly be tied to AD4.

    The Zhanshi Hacker, at 19|0.5, is the cheapest way to get a Coordinated Jump (or similar) ability on to the table, bringing the Liu Xing's cost up to 51|0.5 at a minimum. It's not the end of the world, and the Liu Xing might be good on its own merits (but personally speaking I don't see those profiles as being particularly enticing), but when compared to similar kinds of units (ie, units that are intended to jump into the middle of an enemy force and disrupt things; by decapitating the Lt, or killing a TAG, for example) it's not very impressive. If you want something to go hunt down enemy cheerleaders, we can do that already, and the Liu Xing's package isn't exactly stellar for doing that.
     
    ambisinister and Modock like this.
  10. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    167
    I can offer some explanations to that. Firstly the Fiday and Oniwaban are CC troops and both are very good at that job, their PH is mitigated by (in the case of the Oniwaban) monofilament and martial arts. The Fiday (because of impersonation) isn't using PH to get up close to enemy. It uses WiP 15 and even then, only if it wants to be inside the enemy deployment zone. Fidays also have smoke so can do a lot of disruption work if the player just wants to move other stuff up safely. Oniwaban have superior infiltration so their roll is a PH +3 and because of when the roll happens you are not actually losing anything except positioning should you fail the roll. It happens before the game and you can adjust your plans to suit quite easily before spending a single order.

    Next is the fact that unlike either of the other cases the Liu Xing won't always be making a normal roll to come in. Enemy hackers can hack the aircraft and force it to disperse (potentially off table or out into the open) which makes it a face to face roll against every hacker with the option to ARO. There is a small benefit here since those hackers cannot therefore react to Explode level-X or attempt to immobilise the Liu xing because they've already had their chance to ARO that order. However it still means that we're making a face-to-face roll, rather than a normal roll. If you want to bring the Liu xing down then you really want the best odds possible to ensure it lands. That means bringing a hacker and spending an order for assisted jump or bringing an Evo hacker, which adds another 25pts to the package.

    PH 12 isn't the end of the world but it really puts a crimp in the style of the thing knowing that this stand-out one use ability isn't necessarily very likely to come off even before we hope the opponent fails an ARM roll.
     
    Triumph, Modock, Kallas and 1 other person like this.
  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,424
    Likes Received:
    2,355
    Wasn't AD troops are addicted to Assisted Jump when they deploy in AD Lv 4? I know people expected a top-notch AD HI, it does seems plausible when you're playing the best HI faction(or, at least, fluffy) in the entire game, but Liu Xing seems getting more than enough salt than it deserves.

    The main point about this salt I see is PH 12; It does role critical attribute for an AD, can doubt it, but then, come on! Its a Caskuda! You can actually blast off people by simply landing on the ground. For AD troops, this is HUGE, both for your opponent and for yourself. If developers of CB did not want to see tourneys being filled with Yu Jing, such gimmicks should be punished by some ways.

    And I see comparing it with other factions' infiltrators like (groan) Oniwaban and Fiday. But once again, those guys are surgical knifes; Why bother to achieve their own territory of role? This guy is an all-rounder, able to change his role as the tides of game turn. You can use him as a last minute HVT mission runner, or unexpected MULTI carrier, and great CoC assassination run.

    You are playing Yu Jing, the jack of all trades, true that Liu Xing might brought another thick layer of salt in this forum, give this guy a go. Grabbing a card which can actually blow up their landing zone will bring some paranoia to other factions.
     
    Mc_Clane likes this.
  12. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    445
    The Caskuda was PH 16 Or 17, making better at achieving the drop than any jump troop since.
     
    DFW Ike likes this.
  13. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    I think attributing the zhanshi cost all to the Liu Xing is a bit of a stretch given that bringing a hacker has value outside of just giving coordinated jump to the liu Xing.
    For example, like bringing a rui shi.

    So while PH15 isn't automatic like superior infiltration, its pretty likely in a list where synergies are key, and having a hacker isn't an automatic tell that you will have a liu xing.
     
    Kallas and Joametz like this.
  14. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    967
    It is also worth mentioning that the EVO hacker profile could have many other uses in IA, bringing the effective support cost for a Liu Xing down. We have high AVA AD:4, hacking devices on most known units, and more remotes then other YJ sectorials, making the EVO a better choice then it has ever been.
     
    AdmiralJCJF and krossaks like this.
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    8,269
    Bringing more than 2 AD troopers is usually a bad idea (unless they are Yuan Yuan) since you'll be burning their orders leaving you with a severely diminished order pool.
    If the terrain is right and the opponent obliges with troop placement then dumping up to 4 templates for a bunch of troops that's going to only have 6 orders might work, but I still wouldn't do it outside of Firefight...
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Depends on your model count. I sometimes run triple Tigers with 20 models, but there's no real way I see IA managing to do this.
     
  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    988
    Likes Received:
    1,349
    What were people expecting for an HI AD troop? Of course it would be hackable.
     
    Joametz and krossaks like this.
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    8,269
    They- we were expecting 2 wounds and hackable of course.
     
    Section9, AdmiralJCJF and Kallas like this.
  19. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    471
    An HI, not a pseudo-HI.
     
  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    1W+NWI+BImm is actually better. You still have guaranteed two wounds before going down, and there's no body left behind. Zhencha, on the other hand...

    Wysłane z mojego Lenovo A6020a40 przy użyciu Tapatalka
     
    Ariwch likes this.