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Happy Thread : Liu xing!

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ObviousGray, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You brought it up in a discussion about the merits of the liu xing. What on earth were you expecting? The level of play is going to get scrutinised.

    The fact is your buddy made some awful mistakes which completely alienated how the game should have progressed, making the bat rep tainted and pointless to bring up as it helps neither side of the argument as to whether the liu xing is of any value.

    By the same virtue if I have a game well outside of normal parameters, like I am teaching a new player or I roll crits 5 times in a row, I don't bring it up because people will rightfully point out his its a waste of time trying to add it to the discussion.
     
  2. SpectralOwl

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    First paragraph: Perfectly sensible.

    Everything else? NO. Errors in list design and play are part and parcel of Infinity, and ObviousGray's observations are completely valid. Capitalising on these mistakes and blind spots is part of what makes the gameplay fun and challenging. The Interventor could have gone down just as easily to a masterfully placed Ninja Sniper or something, and it would have had zero impact on the Liu Xing's progress. As it was, it shows that without high-calibre hackers the Liu Xing can leverage its combat jump to do horrific damage to a backline full of repeater bots and DTWs.

    Most importantly, NONE of this excuses being rude to others.
     
  3. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Guys, we are in Liu Xing thread, and I thank you all for making constant interest on the unit, regardless of finding a silver line or not.

    Every opinion counts. I think @Triumph expected more intense, unhindered by luck and pure showdown of Liu Xing. In that way, he got points.

    Still, he insulted my pal upon it, that was why I was annoyed. Be toxic on me, that's fine; please don't on someone you don't know.

    Looks like my roll-out was not that appealing compared to Zhencha one, and I will keep that in mind. I'll try to bring more specific report next time, so consider it will you.

    At least, I tried; He did his job for today.


    Oh, and thanks to you, @SpectralOwl bro. Good man you are, being polite even on cyber world.
     
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  4. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    There is actually data from the batrep if you actually were considering it without an axe to grind.

    For example, if the opponent just didn't have an interventor or similar. The Liu xing performed well, ate a crit and kept going.

    It's not a knock out punch for or against the model in this discussion, but it added information.

    You seem to go to great lengths to dismiss the information, and being a jerk about it to boot.

    Maybe get out and spend more time playing with the Liu xing and posting about rather than just taking a dump on someone else.
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oh please, enough with the fake virtue signalling. If you and your mate are truly so thin skinned I'm honestly surprised either of you can get out of bed in the morning.


    Errors are part and parcel of the game, mistakes happen and I'm willing to work with that no battle report will be perfect and events will cause swings. On the other hand this mistake is critically bad. The YJ player should've gone into turn 1 in LoL, that's a massively different game, and realistically the deployment holes that the player was abusing shouldn't exist. I consider being able to deploy correctly a basic skill, if you can't do that you're probably going to struggle with alot of things from drop troops to impersonators.

    Side note, if you lose your Interventor to something as stupid as a Ninja Sniper you're honestly going to get the same response from me because that Interventor had no business being shot at by anything that doesn't start in your deployment zone.

    As it was all it showed was that with an opponent making constant mistakes getting his stuff killed in his turn for no reason or order expenditure, your Liu Xing can kill alot of things. That doesn't tell us anything other than a player makes alot of really bad mistakes.


    It tells us if we can ignore its hackable trait, it's an ok gunfighter. Congratulations, nobody is disputing that BS13 can do some gunfighting they're pointing out that hackers are common as are repeater zones, and that being hackable IS A BIG PROBLEM.

    You're not adding anything here. Maybe try to have a valid point once in a while.
     
  6. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    To be fair, Liu-xing combat jump plays like no other combat jump in the game if you're trying to make use of the explode rule. Most AD (especially those who don't have a second wound, true or not) will try to find some area out of LoF to drop safely (hell, most of the time they'd rather use AD:2 to not risk a dispersion), and it is possible that those area were indeed covered. But the Liu-xing doesn't give a shit. He will drop directly on your troops, preferably right behind them so he doesn't risk an engage, and eventually kill them with the blast or in the following order with his shotgun/multi-rifle.

    What you need against a Liu-xing is not only to cover most areas where usual drop troops could land, but also the back of your own troops, because even though it might be seen as too daring for most AD troopers, for the Liu-xing it's just the perfect parking spot. It might take a while for our opponents to adjust their deployement to effectively counter this kind of super-agressive combat jump.
     
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  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, that's not very hard to do you basically treat it like Van Zant and use cheap Flash Pulses like the Warcor and such to protect you from the back. Couple of those and you'll basically lock the most vulnerable spots in your deployment down.

    Secondly, the example given the player in question left that drop spot wide open to any drop troop not just a Liu Xing. Anything could've dropped aggressively there if it chose to and attacked from close range the exact same way. The fact that the drop point was even more beneficial to a Liu Xing than another drop troop because of the free shot with explode doesn't counter the fact where somebody deploying correctly wouldn't have left it open in the first place.
     
  8. SpectralOwl

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    Reality seems to disagree with your analysis. In literally every batrep people have added to this thread.

    My point with my original message was that the point of the analysis was to examine the effectiveness of the Liu Xing, not somebody's Daofei vs. Interventor play, and definitely not to offend people. If the Daofei was Isolated my guess is that the Ninja KHD would have emerged in active to fry the Interventor, and we would have seen the Liu Xing drop in on Turn 2 against a backline deprived of a few heavy hitters that would have already moved forward, which would have been interesting as we haven't really seen a later drop yet. However, that didn't happen, instead we got to see it eat a crit and gut an order pool. If you really want to see a Liu Xing fighting in a "properly defended DZ", why not try one yourself? They are a lot of fun!
     
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  9. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    Huh, why does this sound so familiar ;)
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    While I haven't looked at every bat rep in this thread, it would not surprise me at all if there're people trumpeting how good they think the Liu Xing is, and they're the same people playing the Liu Xing against a bunch of players that have no clue at all how to deploy defensively and think this qualifies as the model being good.

    Ok, well now I can tell you've never actually put a Ninja KHD down against an Interventor because they're actually pretty shit and unreliable against them even in the active turn, this is a lesson I had to learn the hard way trying and failing to off Interventor LTs with a Ninja before sitting down and actually looking at the math.

    Your best bet is Skullbuster, and this goes up against Sucker Punch which unfortunately hits you with a -3 WIP MOD. With Surprise Shot your odds of downing the Interventor are still only 37-25%. It's not great and you'd better hope you don't fail here because without Surprise Shot trying a second time the odds are now 31-37% in the Interventor's favour. I don't know about you but odds like that are normally considered pushing shit uphill, and people think about better shit to do with their orders.

    Ninja KHD's a good model but Nomad hackers are a class above her. Losing your Interventor to a normal roll there's no other way to put it, ya dun goofed. This model is very hard for YJ to simply outhack (which is as it should be, Nomads being the space wizard faction).

    No doubt I will, I play garbage like the Guijia after all. Doesn't change the fact that the Liu Xing has major viabilities issues and Explode LX is an underwhelming gimmick that doesn't lend enough to carry the model.
     
    #450 Triumph, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
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  11. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Highly dependant of usual terrain density, and against van zant you just need to cover your DZ's table edge, which is a lot easier than covering the back of every single one of your troops. Not saying it's not possible, but there's a lot of variable here, so we can't say with certitude that there was any misplay in this regard (though there is one)

    That, however, is true. An evo hacker remote is one of the very few unit who doesn't have any way to defends itself, so if you're not used to playing it it's easy to overlook the fact that leaving him alone makes it a fairly good drop spot. Happened to me recently against morats, it was i think the 2nd time i played an evo since HSN3 dropped, and i was really surprised when he dropped right next to it with his rasyat. Managed to succesfully defend it, and i can now confidently say that's not a mistake i'll make twice, but it's one i had to make once i guess.
     
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  12. SpectralOwl

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    While "underwhelming" is a good way to describe Explode in general, there's a fair chance it costs all of one point and is still useful enough to warrant that expenditure.

    While "Zuyong, but anywhere" seems good enough for me, it appears that you have very different opinions. Can't wait for the results from your own test games, whatever your manners it seems like you certainly know how to play the game at a good level and hold your tests to high standards.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If I had the hacking prowess of a different faction, "Zuyong, but anywhere" would be a whole lot more viable. But as we've discussed, Yu Jing are not very competent at hacking, and when you remove their most used hacking asset from a sectorial and then expect this flying Zuyong to perform... well shit gets real questionable real quick.

    I have entertained the thought of how the Liu Xing's issues might actually be cleared up if he became the KHD the sectorial needed, especially if he brought his own tinbot or something. Dialing a KHD to show up exactly where you wanted it might be good enough to help make up for a shitty repeater network.
     
  14. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    You really can't post anything without swearing or insulting people, do you?

    If you're one tactical genius who can pick almost everyone's experience, then show us your gameplay. IDC whatever it is, batreps, Photos, whatever you can.

    I bet you can. Looks like you got a lot of free time, always crawling in the forums, judging everyone else with your genius attitude.

    Enlighten me, will you? As someone who can perfectly defend himself against pin-point ADs?
     
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  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    When your definition of an insult is being told the truth, that you (or in this case your friend) played badly and made really basic errors, it would appear so.

    If all you want is a participation trophy and a pat on the back and no criticism, go and make your own battle report thread in the battle reports forum and I guarantee you will get only that because people will either ignore it, or not care enough to post in it.

    But if you come to a thread with actual discussion involved and post stuff like that? It's going to get picked apart. That's how it is.

    Tell you what, go and take a photo of the board you played on, show me how he deployed and what he had in his list, and I'll show you how he can fix it so he doesn't roll over and die to AD troops running riot in his deployment zone like that with no contest. How does that sound?
     
    #455 Triumph, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  16. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Fine by it. You can make something I can nod without using a word shit. Yeah, One who's throwing himself to the fire will get burned. You got your points. I was naive for that.

    I can do it. Will try to take some photos.

    Still, I want your actual photos of playing. As one thinking you're the one of many armchair general, it would be good to know you actually play the game.
     
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  17. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Can you please calm down?
     
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  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm more than happy enough to give you some photos, I'll be frank though I'm not interrupting my gaming nights to prepare battle reports for you though.
     
  19. SpectralOwl

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    I can see those D-Charges on the MULTI profile being a really big deal for the three people out there who play with destructible terrain as it can quickly clear new lanes to attack through, or they can be used for accessing an Objective Room with sealed doors more efficiently.
     
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Or the Classified where you blow up a terrain feature on the enemy half (or in enemy DZ for the extreme mode)

    All in all, the Liu Xing profiles are fairly useful. I'm having a bit of pre-release doubts about the BSG profile, but the two more expensive guns seem really appropriate for the Louie's effective role. A KHD profile would've been excellent, as Triumph points out, hopefully forthcoming but I'm not holding my breath.