I don't think the Yu Jing drop system uses rockets of any sort. There don't appear to be any on the Tiger, and the Liu Xing is dropping in the artwork that was released is dropping on his own men, so probably not firing retro rockets at them.
Sounds like it's forcing bad decisions on the aro trooper. An ability normally hailed as good in Infinity. The 2nd wound makes this less risk for the Liu xing. But I can see the two abilities give the Liu xing options other drop troops don't have. A fraacta dropping in the same curcumstance for example can eat the wound, but then has to do another face to face. If the troop is a chain rifle warband, well you're taking a very real risk of dying. The Liu xing could emerge from that situation taking a wound but the troop might be dead from the blast. It's an option.
I'm 100% certain the explosion won't have a 16" radius, which means "that one model getting an ARO" would have to be amended to "that one model within 2,5" of my intended landing spot getting an ARO" to which I say "No, that rarely happens and probably won't ever happen if opponent knows about the Liu Xing so the question is 'how much value can we derive from mucking up the opponent's positioning?'" Does an EVO REM and a 9 order list spearheaded by a Hac Tao threaten with two Liu Xing enough to symmie movement and offset the missing trooper? (A question we won't know until we know what models will get Tactical Sense and what armaments the specialists will have)
I wonder if the template will be like an impact template that "hits" on your AD roll, and if it touches an enemy mini if they ARO with shoot or dodge or whatever, it's a ftf
Given IJW has written "if it's a DTW-like attack" combined with how Explode1 works, that's basically the only information we can speculate from. I'm personally taking that as a hint about what they've planned but as far as I can tell here's three options: It's a DTW, and the first weapon to use the following rule in the Templates section: Circular Direct Template: Place the center of the Circular Template (Blast Focus) over the center of the attacker's base. All troopers affected by the Template suffer the Attack. It's an attack that uses the Airborned Deployment's PH roll as attack value, causing any Face to Face against this value The Face to Face only works for comparisons versus Dodge and its derivatives. The Face to Face works as if the Liu Xing had declared a Speculative Fire, including for BS Attack AROs. It works like Explode 1 and the explosion happens at end of resolution just prior to Guts Rolls, though I find this unlikely I think (1) is how it'll work, but (2.2) would be fairly reasonable as well and I'm not certain whether that's preferable or not
I was wondering today if explode has DA or EXP that ups the stakes for units on the receiving end? Like you dodge and give the Liu a free drop or you shoot and probably die.
If its DA or EXP DTW or even Impact Template Weapon I better not hear any of you YJ players complaining about this troop profile.
That doesn't automatically make it good. Time will have to tell regardless - it's a new mechanic (Caskuda doesn't really compare)
Yeah, uh, that doesn't make it immediately amazing. If it's Damage 5 EXP, it's crap. Obviously, that's a pretty ridiculous outlier notion, but the point is that DA or EXP isn't necessarily going to be the kicker alone. For starters, Explode LX may or may not trigger if the enemy Dodges. Depending on that, that may have an inordinate impact (one way or the other) as to how good the skill is. Then you need to factor in possible Hack Transport Aircraft attempts; what EVO/Controlled Jump you're bringing (and if that's expensive, relative to the work the Liu Xing might achieve with the assistance); what targets they have to go after (if it's EXP D25, sure, it'll mess up HI/TAGs; but if it's Shock D13, then HI/TAGs will be nasty counters to the Liu Xing); etc. Further, do the Daoying or Haidao bring anything to help it out? Liu Xing might be awesome. It might be overcosted. We don't quite have the full picture yet - but it's clear enough that saying it having X/Y/Z Ammo Type alone will make it amazing is plain wrong; there are too many factors that can influence that.
Well Explode LX seems to cost like, two points So it doesn't need to do a lot to be worth it. If it's literally just "DTW, Dam 14" that'd be absolutely legit.
Because I'm bored at work and got nothing better to occupy my mind atm; just a thought, but what if it's Stun instead of Shock? Damage isn't quite as necessary to discuss unless you're trying to stun a TAG or Interventor. Basic idea is; you drop down and anyone who fails the dodge gets taken out of action and most will be forced to scatter out of cover and what have you. Points cost in that range is all over the place, but Disposable weapons don't tend to be that weak. It's everything else surrounding this particular weapon makes it special. Mines, Chest Mines and E/Maulers are higher use and arguably much cheaper with fewer caveats while Panzerfausts are a tiny bit more expensive but higher use and much stronger. Chest Mines are the closest compared to what we're expecting, but doesn't require you to succeed a PH roll to use it and has greater use count.
On the other hand, none of those things can be deployed directly into your opponent's DZ. With a risk, sure, but let's say you're playing Ariadna and your opponent has a Frontovik team. You drop in and they can't disrupt it via hackers, you've got a 75% chance of just slapping 2-3 (depending on placement, could be more or less) with DTW first order first turn. Dodge and you might save 1-2 of them, losing link bonuses, then having a BS 13 HI with a BSg or whatever in their back line. Shoot and your losses will be higher! And then another one can drop in, up to four. You could put your opponent in LoL with 4-5 casualties with just the drop rolls! That's incredibly good and you're not even paying a lot for the Explode effect. You guys want this dude to be good, I get that, but even without Explode he already is, with it, could be insane. So I'm just saying; be aware of what it is that you have here and manage your expectations.
Well, for starters it's actually got to land! Off the bat, that's a 60% chance. If you're bringing 4(?!) then odds are at least one is going to fail, with a reasonable chance of two failing: the odds of two passing, sequentially, is 36%; for all four landing, that's only 13%! You can, of course, add in Controlled Jump/EVO (jacking up the cost a bit, with 4 Liu Xing you're looking at a minimum of 128pts) for a somewhat more reliable 42% chance of three landing successfully. I'm not saying Liu Xing can't do work, but they're not going to do a ton of work just from Explode LX alone. Link Teams are difficult to calculate: if they're HI, they're going to tank the hit and annihilate the Liu Xing. If they're LI/MI, then it very much depends on what Link we're talking about. And again, it depends on what Explode LX does. If it's D13 Shock, then those Frontoviks you mentioned have a base 55% chance to Dodge (assuming ELX will let them Dodge) and then have a 45% chance to tank the hit (ARM2 vs D13). That's not necessarily bad odds for the Liu Xing, but that's something of a gamble. Further, AD troops in the Liu Xing's price range put a dent in the order pool when you're bringing more than one: we know this from Tigers! The Liu Xing definitely has a lot of potential: it's whether that potential is worth chasing or not, and that's going to be a big factor in how well received it is. It's kind of funny: you're saying that people should temper their expectations (which everyone should anyway!), while at the same time you're going on about how awesome they might be! I am definitely a pessimist (in pretty much everything: I'd much rather be surprised by something exceeding my expectations than disappointed when something fails to live up to them) but you seem to be asking people to be both pessimistic and optimistic, somehow!
I'm actually saying be realistic. These are already strong troops. Explode LX will make them stronger.
I don't think they're necessarily strong, if you were to remove ELX from them. At that point they're basically just slightly different Gao-Tarsos (some better stats vs Hackable/higher cost; different loadouts). ELX is a defining feature and will probably play a large part in how effective (or at least feared, which is important for the mind games that they might be able to bring) they are. Tigers (although now inexplicably not IA) have a similar impact, if you factor out ELX, with some differences again (of course), but they're a stand out troop for various reasons - some of which the Liu Xing brings, but some it doesn't. Mods are a huge facet of the game, and while 1.99W helps in some ways, in others it doesn't compared to Mimetism. I guess in essence I disagree that they're all that strong, as they are, ignoring ELX.
