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Hammerhead & Riposte

Discussion in 'Rules' started by CAnon, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    So, Riposte obviously has a timing to activate when an attack is declared. However, as it's an until end of turn effect it is worded as if the dice gain is passive (and so checked whenever relevant).
    This normally wouldn't matter as most characters can't move out of or into 1-2:L:between attack declaration and rolling dice, but Hammerhead's Battering Ram can.

    So my question is, does Shona gain the Riposte dice because Hammerhead is in that range before the dice are set and rolled, or does she not since the attack was declared from outside?
     
    #1 CAnon, Jul 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. zephen1802

    zephen1802 Active Member

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    This does need official confirmation, but I think Shona would get the riposte dice, because you are moving Hammerhead before the roll step of the face to face. After he moves, and the roll step starts, it would be within riposte's range.
     
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  3. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified
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    No she will not. Hammerhead moves before the roll step - which means that timing for adding dices and play cards ends, next timing you will be able to play cards is "before the switch step and critical blocks"
     
  4. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that makes sense. It also means Bill can't use Gunslinger (or, if he already had it, lose it).
     
  5. zephen1802

    zephen1802 Active Member

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    But the timing for Riposte only stipulates that an attack be declared against her, with no range qualifier in the timing. Hammerhead targets her, she plays the card. Then he moves within 1-2. Now that he's close enough before the face to face roll, she'll get the bonus dice.

    Or am I misreading that?
     
  6. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified
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    Yes, dices to roll decided before hammerhead moves.
     
  7. zephen1802

    zephen1802 Active Member

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    Could you point me to where that is stated? I'm not seeing that in the rules.
     
  8. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified
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    Face to Face Rolls pit two Characters against each other, so they are slightly more complex than Simple Rolls. To resolve a Face to Face Roll, follow this sequence:
    you play riposte
    1. Tactics: After declaring a Face to Face Roll is needed, both players may play Tactics to modify the Roll. If both players want to play Tactics, the Underdog chooses who does so first. you count dices here
    hammerhead moves here according to "before roll the dice step"

    2. Roll the dice: Both players roll their dice. and here you roll you roll your dices

    The same way, if hammerhead attack Gata and put him self in range 1 - Gata will not receive boost to defense roll for Feline Reflexes

    exact the same way you dice was one of you in cover or not.
     
  9. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, timing seems a bit murky in the rules. When exactly are Focus and Take Aim dice added?

    Bill's Ace of Diamonds, for instance, just states "before making a roll" whilst Hammerhead must place himself "before the roll step". The difference between which implies you can add dice before any roll is made within the roll step.

    (Notably, though, Gunslinger can't change as it is timed on attack declaration)
     
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  10. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified
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    Looks like we step in typical CB inconsistency in wording.

    We need some official help here.
     
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  11. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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  12. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    Well... It's a bit tricky, but going to the Slow-Mo Cam, we can see the whole beautifulness of this interaction.

    HammerHead declares "Battering Ram" against Shona (having taken into account that he has enough AP and Range/LoS). He spends the mandatary AP and declares.

    So, here comes Shona, which uses "Riposte" in this exact moment. As you all may note, Riposte is not an instant Effect, rather being a continuous passive Effect.

    HammerHead then Displaces Shona and Places himself as per the first mandatary Effect we are right now, just befor the Roll Step of the Attack.

    Now, we begin the Roll Step. HammerHead takes :*::-::-:; Shona checks that the Big Bad Boy is within Range of "Riposte" and thus takes :-::.: (base Defense) + :-::,::,: (Riposte).

    After this, you can go on ahead.

    Hope this helps!

    :3
     
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  13. Ghost_from_warp

    Ghost_from_warp Classified
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    Ok, but if hammerhead put himself behind the wall. It's obviously will disable Riposte. But will they be able to damage each other? Since there is no LoF between them. If all dices, range and LoF decide in moment of declaring attack and playing tactics - it's all clear. But according to you, we will have about 2 separated moment to calculate roll, which makes no sense.

    I'am not an expert, but looks like "Before the roll step" should be clarified. Too many things happening in this moment of time.
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I think there are two situations getting mixed in the thread:

    1. Can Shona declare Riposte when Hammerhead declares his Attack, and have Riposte work? (Yes, in my opinion.)
    2. If Hammerhead declares his Attack from outside range 2, will Riposte have any effect? (Unsure.)
     
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  15. CAnon

    CAnon Well-Known Member

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    As awkward as it seems, I believe LoS is only checked during attack declaration (as nothing seems able to negate the attack - barring Axl's tactic after that point) unless otherwise specified.

    And having no LoS to an unMarked target would be illegal and prevent the attack from occurring.

    So it doesn't matter whether he places himself within LoS or not, both can still damage one another. (Though being out of LoS would prevent the Riposte dice being added, as he wouldn't be within 1-2 :L:)
     
  16. Damiel

    Damiel Domaru sexytorizado :3
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    Answers in blue within the quotations.

    Hope this helps.

    :3
     
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  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yeah, the key thing which allows Riposte to function here is the timing of the move from Hammerhead.

    Because he is moved into range BEFORE the Roll Step it's going to function, and because it doesn't have any range requirement for being played initially then it can have been "put up" before.
     
  18. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
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    This is the right answer, and in slow motion!

    Thank you, @Damiel

    :wink:
     
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  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    And thank you for the confirmation!