I'm MOSTLY sure that idea had occurred to CB long before any of us put it into writing on the forum. The sad part is the knowledge that anything appearing in another faction is so vanishingly unlikely to ever make it into PanO.
im honestly not, its been brainstormed for years and feels much more like a "lets chuck this in" for the NA2 armies than a coherent aspect of their deisgn. But yes it matters little as its now almost garraunteed not to be in PanO
I agree that a lot of PanO could use a makeover. It's not that the faction is bland, it's that it's the most relatively "finished" or complete. CB has gotten more creative and inventive with recent profiles, but a lot of core PanO units seem relatively set in stone. This is a problem elsewhere (Lasiq's anyone?), but may be especially prevalent in PanO. Just sprinkling in MMR or MULTI MMR, some KHD, more breakers etc...to existing options would go along way towards updating the faction. (How cool would those options be on Father Knight?!) Slim down Bolts, give Engineer to Santiago, add some better mixed links and it could work. Look at Black Friar and Locust as recent successes.
They come with SMG and a template weapon (chain colt, for small teardrop)... cheaper and of "shorter range" but with AP or Shock ammo... in a troop that already deploys on the enemy's side. Sure, "inferior". For me, if SMG's need to retain their cost, making they shoot normal ammo (so losing the AP and the Shock options) is a must. I'm aware. But to compress a faction who already has so many more exclusive rules seems more than worth it to me, specially for a faction that is supposed to excel on biotech even more than Haqquislam on certain fields (the Praxis labs are less concerned about morality, so those have the Pupniks while Haqquislam "just" have the best doctors for humans). YOU try to wrest a military contract from the weapons business! I double dare you XD. Certainly, PanO follows follows a "best gear in the bracket" approach. That, however, should reflect in their weapon costs, not in their BS (for example, Multi Sniper Rifles for 1 SWC for the Fusiliers, instead of BS12, paying the Combi rifle at the cost of a BSG, etc...); that would be, however, much harder to balance. I'd say that PanO is, KINDA, the US Military of Infinity. And the wildly used guns in the US military are modifications on stuff 50 years old, at least archetypically, despite we all seeing videos of weapons with cameras that shoot through corners, etc... Not having access to regular smoke in a faction with cheap trusty cheerleaders and good shooting and good visors I can understand. Not giving them Eclipse, out of the Military Orders at least, is kinda strange. And yeah, I know the Guarda de Assalto has Eclipse smoke (in his remote, though :S), and that Neoterra is more a "let's go for Camo levels instead". Corregidor follows the same design... yet it has the Smoke combo instead of a straighforward TO murder minitag XD TOTALLY worth it in certain units and weapons: a Mk12 Agema gets TONS of mileage from that X-Visor, while a Sniper Intruder... don't. Marksmanship-X is... horrible though. Agree. I have a Corregidor bunch of units and it's my greatest regret, had I started with Bakunin I would use the units all the time. As it is now... I use the Intruder and little else, sometimes the Jaguars (which I proxy with old Alguaciles anyway), every year or so the Bandit, and little else (I have no Geckos, and no time atm to get them... I do have the Brigadas, and they seldom, if ever, see table).
You cannot complain that CB is not reading PanO forums xD Also remarks from sudo CB employess about that PanO was designed to be boring are frustrating as heck. Im really tempted just to make a big header in MO tactica that people should really think this decision through and mayby pick other faction/sectorial which has bit more luck when it comes to design and product owner love.
beyond frustrating at this point, how much do we have to write for them to sit down and think "gee I wonder if they have a flipping point" just because the newer players pick PanO and inflate teh numbers. its basically just how GW treats Chaos space marines, with extra "Nah uh"
I wouldn't exclude modifiers from this comparison. Mimetism, for example, is close to having +3 BS in face to face, although you trade some extra reward for some extra risk in terms of pure statistics, I think. Then Zhayedans have rule that amounts to actual +3 BS when shooting into cover (exceptions being Impetuous troops and the like). That's better shooting than Maghariba and especially lone raging Asawira that gives +3 BS to the enemy, becoming almost Ghulam-tier in terms of shooting. PanO is not shooting faction just because they have +1 raw BS. It's because they are presented by shooters who have that +1 BS in their class and modifiers galore on top of it. TO's -6; Bagh-Mari's +3/-3. Or take a look at remotes: one that not only ignores -3 from cover like everyone's else, but also imposes -6 and have that +1 BS; or another that has all that standard MMS2 goodness, but also being where it can start shooting instantly on top of that and, well, +1 BS... Most faction have these things. It's just PanO combine them more freely with other troop qualities and each other. And get that +1 BS. But they do trade a lot of tricks for that, including those that level the field for the rest, sometimes even in shooting, but that's another story. If you only want that HMG profile, take a look at new Vet Kazak. The mini definitely works to represent ARM 3 (Ayyars wear similarly looking armor, maybe heavier but they are W2, so...), and helmet isn't that far out of the line with new Haqq helmets you can see on Khwarijis or Hakims. Well, Asawiras are basically Haqq knights, yes, both historically and on tabletop. And it's not like they aren't liked... They just either don't have what sells frenzied expensive units (no links in vanilla except duo with itself... at a standard vanilla price, for a limited time; pretty terrible) or run kinda counter to what player expect to do with their sectorial (HB isn't played for its sledgehammers). And even then, arguably, Muyibs aren't Magisters, although being a Haris and not full core helps immensely - at least they don't leech from the rest of the list's functionality that much. And supernaturally strong humans with amazingly steady grip and heart rate no matter what they do. And humans that just won't feaking die upon being shot with expansive bullets. And, rumors are, even humans that can see beyond IR or UV parts of EM specter, but those are vehemently denied :P Well, it is a sectorial, after all. Those being limited in unit choices and rewarding "spam" in lists (in the form of "three/five dudes links") are already pretty easy to grasp on list building and strategy levels. Playing them competently is, of course, another thing entirely... Oh, and they have Deadpool Haris, something that does what knights wish they could do with that smoke, except with less staying power (but also cheaper). Granted, they don't have much else going for them. They have things that would serve as great extras, but their core (pun half-intended) features as a sectorial are kind of meh. Aaand those extras just choose to flee to vanilla...
The issue concentrated is the only multi marksman rifle in the game is in JSA but clearly a PanO design. lol if u believe this
I have to disagree, Rao as an LT won me games in Bagh Mari fireteams. He's relatively safe there with 2 BSGs and a mysterious camo marker from the MSR around. WIP 14 is more than OK for a Pano LT, and it often granted me first turn to unleash a SCREAMING TIKBALANG OF DOOM on Turn 1, then follow up with Bagh Maris, dig in in the middle, blow up stuff with D-charges etc. MSV-1 and linked asspistol is ultimate fun, especially against some midfield odd/TO guys. So if Rao at least won't become worse than he's now, I'll be dancing a good times dance.
How does Mimetism+MSV fundamentally play differently to the last 3 sectororials that did it. you're welcome not to participate, and again. SWC Lts SWC differences ect, all old ideas
I know it is an old idea, but I personally quite like it. On the outrage of every other faction? it will happen.
