Really? I thought that resolved as two normal rolls, because one model is attempting to wound the other while the second one doesn't, it's just trying to put it in a certain state: "For actions to be resolved with a Face to Face Roll, both troops must affect each other directly. If either action does not affect the outcome of the other, use Normal Rolls instead." How do you guys understand that? I'm probably missing something...
It's a common question for a newer player. Rule of thumb in Infinity is, if both models are rolling it is opposed. Normal rolls are the exception.
Tossing a state is affecting another model. Not affecting each other would be using the wrong evasion for the attack (e.g. dodge vs comms attack, reset vs cc/bs attack) or throwing smoke that won't block LOF.
I still have some of the same problem. For the longest time I though using Forward Observe would make normal rolls because it only Targeted. But it's a normal f2f.
Having our KHDs in vicinity will make them regret their life choices.. :D since it got a real edge over almost every freaking HDs. Frankly, a Ninja or Haidao KHD frees me a lot against foolish hackers who dare hack our HIs. Normal HDs can't stand a chance against Trinity surprise hack or Redrum.
Random realization: Haidao KHD Daoying HD and Liu Xing can choose to roll ARM against Trinity... Not that that matters much, but it's kind of funny.
Mmm, no. Choosing ARM/BTS to save is able on Bioimmunity, not shock immunity. So he'll be getting struck by BTS.
Not gonna work like this.Target cannot benefit from different supportware programs in same Order/ARO, so you can either have +3 to Reboot, or firewall mods, not both at the same time. I mean, even without Reboot it's still pretty good... just not as good as your writeup.
I would add that Reboot never gave a +3 MOD on Reboot. It inflicts a -3 to any FtF when you Reset. So you're still on -9 if you Reset but your opponent's MODs are still going to strike hard. Playing against a lot of hackers or few good ones (or not at all except KHD) is a meta and depending on your opponents. I have faced Nomad players who like playing 4+ Hackers and when each time you spend an order, there is 4 AROs incoming, even -9 doesn't protect you from a crit (that's what your opponent is seeking at this point). So be careful when you go play outside your usual playing environment.
With fairy dust and tin bot you're honestly better off just ignoring the aro hack. Mov mov and dont slow down.
I thought it's that only one hacker can run one support program but the recipient can use both. So you are saying the recipient of the support program must choose one?
There are two separate (partially overlapping) limitations: Targets cannot benefit from the effects of a different GADGET Program during the same Order/ARO. HIs can only benefit from the effects of a single GADGET Program during any particular Order or ARO. and Each Hacker can only sustain one active Supportware program at a time. I think most of the Supportware programs are also GADGET programs, it's a bit annoying because Supportware is parenthetical on the name (and not shown in the some of the wiki skills lists) while Gadget is in the tags but more often used for the list groupings. (Gadget-EVO are Gadget, too.) So the recipient of multiple support programs is going to be choosing which one to benefit from whenever the bonuses would apply.
Me and a few other ran the numbers on the discord group about IA vs hackers, and came to conclusion of outside of interventor KHD or mary and a few other of the super top tier hackers IA is basically immune to 99% of hacking, Interventor has a decent chance of cutting through and removing the haidao KHD (who is one of the best KHD in the game he just loses to fa who can beat him with pure stats) normal hackers will pose little threat to your link with fairy dust + tinbot 2 and a KHD that is immune to suprise shot (removing ninja or other camo KHD threats). interventor khd with lightning vs trinity is 50% chance interventor wins on the attack 11% chance she kills haidao lightning vs skullbuster- 48% interventor wins 10% kills lightning vs redrum- 42% chance for interventor to win even on best odds interventor is 42% chance to win, 6% to kill, 45% nothing, 12% uncon interventor 3% chance you kill her the odds are similar for mary, just higher chance to kill her as she has worse BTS with tinbot lvl 2 your odds are much better, a Haidao in zuyong link is nearly unkillable through hacking attempts with your odds being 16% chance of interventor winning and you getting 19% chance in redrum vs lightning Basically IA technically has the strongest hacker in the game in hacker vs hacker fights with a linked Haidao KHD
So we know some of the support and defense we can use to help our HI. EVO Remotes, Fairy Dust, etc. Now what tactics can we use to take them out? Killer Hackers In Vanilla we have 4 different KHD but only 1 IA, and 2 in ISS. In IA it seems that there’s a few options leveraging fireteams. As mentioned using the 13pt baggage bot repeater for the Haidao KHD is a good solution along with other repeater bots. It’s a wildcard so it can be in any link. Some link examples below. Mowang Hulang Zhanshi Zuyong Shang Ji Yan Huo The Mowang Duo interests me a lot. If there’s a juicy target for a hacker, it’s the Mowang. By keeping the Pangguling near him or a little in front of him, any hacker the Mowang comes into ZoC with is also going to be in range of the Pangguling repeater. If the hacker does an ARO against the Mowang instead of the Pangguling, the next order is going to be the KHD. If he does something against the Pangguling instead, (I don’t think that takes out the repeater) guess what happens next? The Hulang I’m not sure if it’s a help or hindrance. The Hulang has FD2 and the Pangguling would need to start in the deployment. It’s not a bad way to just be order efficient if you need the get the baggage bot into a zone of the table for scoring. But I’m not to sure it’s going to be able to help as far as being a repeater since the first encounter with a hacker will be the Hulang. With Zhanshi it’s kind of a waste of a core fire team but you could do a 1-3 Zhanshi+Pangguling+Haidao KHD. The Pangguling moves up in front of the team to get in repeater range for the KHD. To help the Haidao I suppose the Zhanshi can be replaced by a Tinbot Shang Ji. This is a team that could be good when using a Guijia or Hac Tao. A Duo with a Shang Ji could be interesting because it can Duo with the Shang Ji AHD. Even better would be Shang Ji Tinbot Haris + Pangguling + Shang Ji AHD. The BTS 6 on the SJ with Tinbot can make this a pretty good anti-hacker group. Now the same thing can be done with the Zuyong. Zuyong Tinbot + Shang Ji AHD + Pangguling. I think everyone has already thought of doing though the Zyuong Tinbot + Pangguling + Hadao KHD. As @mothman pointed out, the Haidao KHD in a link, with Tinbot especially, is very strong. Another thing to do to save on points is Zuyong Haris Tinbot + Pangguling + Haidao or Shang Ji. I’m not sure if Pangguling with a Yan Huo is a help or hindrance as far as hacking goes. Obviously it can be one of 3 to give a burst bonus to the Yan Huo but sometimes having something in range of your own repeater could be bad. Not so bad though because the Zuyong Haris comes with a Tinbot! Everything I’ve mentioned though is based on the premise of being out of LoS of a hacker and possibly in Enemy ARO.
This is a good post and illustrates strongly why IA has some of the best defensive hacking in the game right now; the only thing that comes close is probably Kerr Nau linked with the Tinbot-A Unidron, or the new Santiago KHD with the inbuilt Tinbot-A. One thing I want to emphasize is that if your meta is thick with hackers, it'd be extremely valuable to bring in a Daoying HD and an EVO HD. Daoying can put down Fairy Dust while the EVO puts down Kaleidoscope: Fairy Dust gives a Firewall bonus that protects your HI, REMs, and TAGs, while Kaleidoscope puts down a Firewall-like bonus on your hackers that doesn't stack with Firewalls, but is not ignored by enemy KHDs. If you're willing to pay the upkeep tax, you can pretty much walk right through enemy repeater nets.
id still be careful though in some match ups with the haidao KHD walking into repeater range, especially if there is more than 1-2 hackers, Nomads with mary+interventor+zondnaut hacker (which is in a fair few of my tunguska lists, zero khd+2 interventors is also common) may decide to pop a repeater next to you then aro with all 3 if its willing to risk them to break up your link and forcing split burst, and might force your to make haidao link leader when walking through repeater webs with camo or TO this can be dangerous near your repeaters this can be dangerous as your link might get into spot where it has to either activate the haidao to safely get out of the repeater trap (and risk an aro to a camo piece) to fight against hackers, or activate a gunner pointman to fight the camo and your 2-3 hackers take unopposed hacking attacks at the haidao or other link members. You can safely walk through a repeater if you can get out in 1 order, but a repeater net really starts to fuck with your link (especially when you are relying on making situational aware units link leader for orders) when walking through the math is interventor KHD vs haidao reset has a 40% chance at beating you so you have to walk through repeaters with move+hacking attacks, move + reset is not good enough, also if the hackers have fired a pitcher or moved a fast panda in such a way to cover 2-3 link members not including haidao they might use hackers to isolate and drop the tinbot out of the link first before engaging the haidao in infowar. It depends on match ups, vs anyone but nomads the haidao should win as most other factions have limited repeater webs, while nomads can easily smoke move a troop or TR bot on their turn to be in LoS of your link, and stick repeaters over your link forcing you to sacrifice haidao, or whatever the TR bot/other troop is looking at picking it apart piece by piece but if you can force the straight up hacking fight you are strong.
And since you're probably rocking a minimum of 12-13 orders in a single combat group, it shouldn't be too hard! (Yes, I'm assuming spending two orders on the Daoying, one for Fairy Dust and one to recamo)
