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Hack the Planet! The Bakunin Jurisdictional Command Tactica

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by helsbecter, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I mean

    Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    MODERATOR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO . (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3)

    0 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    MIGHT work fine in a killy mission IF you got first turn ;)
     
  2. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Yeah, you'll spend 20 of those 25 orders trying to throw smoke
     
  3. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Needs Morlocks
     
    Remnar likes this.
  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Yeah I agree its not the most practical list, which is kind of the point I guess. Ive used 2 with 2 full groups including 4 Morlocks however. That has been pretty effective going first (you can convert the Morlocks orders to regular if you need them). You do end up throwing a truckload of smoke and I dunno about going second (got first both times I played it). 3 Ubers is a stretch tho, even for me.
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    *Looks at narrative rules* 4 x STR2 Chimeras.... Yeah I'm doing that.
     
  6. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Six months since the last post in this thread. Who all out there is playing Bakunin? It's still my one-and-only.
     
  7. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I play em on occasion, mostly if I want to run a Moira core tbh. Moderator Core doesn't really do it for me so much, it's not bad, it's just not interesting to play.
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I try every now and then, but generally end up bored or incredibly frustrated at list construction, though this may be a case of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
     
  9. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I tried sticking to them at the beggining of the year, but despite enjoying the madness of spammy double uberfall for a few games, couldn't find a second list that was both fun and practical, and I've done Riot Grrls enough. So I'm waiting to see if they do a mixed fireteam update and how interesting it is if so, to jump back in.
     
  10. Davetron

    Davetron Member

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    Hey guys,

    Has anyone had much success with a duo Taskmaster list? I recently put together the red fury TM and want to try him in a duo list with his HMG friend. I was thinking of running the list below in a friendly game—no particular mission in mind:
    Taskmasters──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 TASKMASTER HMG / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 49) TASKMASTER Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53) REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) MODERATOR Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 15) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) MODERATOR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZERO (Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1 ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO undefined. (0 | 24) [​IMG] CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 21) [​IMG] x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Would appreciate tour thoughts on the viability of this list.

    Cheers
     
    helsbecter likes this.
  11. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    It seems viable but go ahead and make the taskmaster your lieutenant. He can handle it.

    Some smaller things:
    • Moderator spitfire is not very effective. His BS sucks and he'll never get to enjoy the +3 link bonus since you'll always use your sniper first. Combi rifles are good enough.
    • Get a Zero assault hacker, he's one of the best assault hackers out there. Real champ when it comes to targeting/possession. I'd upgrade your KHD to an AHD with the points saved from the spitfire.
    • Swap the uberfall with your daktari. You'll need all nine orders available to put her in motion when the time comes. A chimera can't do anything with just four regular orders.
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I ran it a fair bit a few years back (during Wotan, so if you can find them there's a couple of Batreps for it).

    HMG + BSG is the best duo (both RF and HRL are solid solo, whereas you get great synergy out of HMG+BSG). Use the orders when the HMG is shooting to position the BSG. When the turn finishes you break the Duo and end with the Shotgun covering a short angle and the HMG on Suppression.

    I could reliably put 6-8 orders through it and push in a flank hard. My opponent would then have to deal with ARM5 4 Wounds commanding an enfilading position. Generally he'd only kill 1 of the 2.

    Extremely fun and would allow me to set the pace of the game.

    Duo'd TMs are tough enough that vs weaker AROs you can get away with exposing the not-leader. This can speed up the process of covering ground.

    It is however strictly less good than either a Grrls Haris or Kusnagi Haris (both of which are not dissimilar cost) for anything other than shoving down someone's throat and beating them over the head with. People don't really expect that from Bakunin so it can be a bit of a surprise.

    The other weaknesses is on defence it's reliant on TR bot and deployables, so not really top tier defensively. I played it a few times without any real Fireteam at all (2 X TMs, 3 x Zeroes, Z&P, 2 X Mods, Reaction, Vertigo was the core of that list): worked, but - yeah - Grrls or Kusanagi is simply better.

    I still occasionally pull out dual TMs for Armoury Missions. They're basically built for it.
     
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Especially when backed up by Lunokhods (and morans in vanilla) and other minelayers to make you part of the board and the the armoury an absolute quagmire to push into.

    When it comes to running double TM I prefer this approach where they are solo operators with complementary weapons, so one can clear the other off for it to move forward and with the different nature of the weapons can be leveraged in interesting ways (the HRL is often way more effective than you think it will be). also running them separate means that there is less chance of having your primary assault piece pinned by enemy shooters.
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    There’s a difference between Double TMs and Duo TMs.

    RF, HRL makes a great right left combo. They cover each other from across the field and can keep up pressure. Duoing them you’re paying for a lot of inefficient overlap.

    HMG + BSG is a tackle takedown. Independently they’ve got glaring weaknesses, but if you fully commit against an opponent who doesn’t suspect it... ooh yeah!
     
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  15. Davetron

    Davetron Member

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    Yeah I’m not expecting much from the moderator spitfire, but I think I’ll give him a run as I just assembled him too. I have pretty low expectations of just how effective he’ll be, but I won’t run him against any tough bits unless I have to. But yeah, I’ll look to switch up the load outs of the zeros and moderators as things progress.

    I will switch around the dak and the Uberfall, or trade the uberfall for Morlocks.
     
  16. Davetron

    Davetron Member

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    @inane.imp cheers for your insights on TM load outs. I can see the value in the BS-HMG duo, and I’ll try that out too.

    Regarding the comparison with Grrls and the Kusanagi haris, yeah you don’t get quite as much bang for your buck. But I do find the Kusanagi haris to be super unforgiving. I’m hoping the TMs will be a bit more robust.

    I’ll check out your Batreps. Keen to see what worked.
     
  17. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    If you're playing biotechvore, dodge the issue entirely by running a Riot Grrl core and a Taskmaster Duo:

    Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    RIOT GRRL Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    TASKMASTER HMG / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 49)
    TASKMASTER Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, CrazyKoalas + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 53)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    MODERATOR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 11)
    DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This list sucks for any other mission but rules in BTV
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    My go to non-tournie BTV list is Riot Grrl Core, TM LT, Avi, 2 x Uberfalls and a Zero KHD.

    I've run the TM Duo as well. But Uberfalls get you out of the DZ more easily. And when else are you going to run 2 at LI?

    The best bit of this though is when you pull a Dr classified. Leave Avi in the BTV Zone, take a wound and then next turn "Dr, heal thyself!" "Ooh, look I did a classified."

    The other thing to remember with TM LTs in BTV is you don't actually need to leave you DZ on Turn 1. BTS6 + 2Ws means that you have better than even odds of not losing a wound, and even if you do it's not the end of the world. Instead you can use the Lt order to just promote it a little, so next turns Lt order can get you out of the zone.

    You've also got a 45% chance of the Zero passing it's infiltration roll: at which point it just feeds orders turn 1 and 2/3 is set up to do classifieds.

    The result is a list that is stupidly efficient at getting out of the Zone and can actually do a really good smattering of classifieds.
     
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  19. Davetron

    Davetron Member

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    Just to change things up a bit, has anyone ever used the AHD Custodier? I want to, but I never find the space due to the cost in points, the utility of the HD+, and the Zero AHD. I will have to try her as some point; just wondering whether you guys have any pointers.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Back when I first started playing (around when HSN3 first dropped) I used to run two Obersvance trios:

    Custodier HD+, Custodier AHD, BSG Healer
    Moira HMG, Moira EM LGL, BSG Healer
    Sin-eater HMG
    Mod Lt
    Mod
    KHD Zero
    Zero EMauler
    3 x DA CCW Morlocks

    It WAS extremely cool because:
    * we didn't realise that Hacking Programs weren't like BS Attacks (please fix for N4 CB!) so Suckerpunch + Carbonite was a legal ARO without breaking the Haris
    * extremely powerful KHDs weren't yet a thing (Nagas were the worst common type)
    * mixed links weren't particularly common
    * sixth sense MSV2 was basically non-existent
    * Shock was a lot rarer
    * Difficult terrain was basically never used
    * Stealthed HI was relatively rare

    This meant that both trios could push and do buttons and actually leverage their ODD to get things done while pushing out 16-24" of 'stay the fuck away' to most anything that could outshoot them (which was mostly HI or TAGs). I occasionally wheel out versions of it now and then (because goddammit the archetype is cool!) but it's *extremely* reliant on getting the right sort of opponent.

    Realistically though, even inside of that Haris, why would you run a Custodier AHD today?

    * HD+ gives decent hacking AROs vs TAGs and HI
    * Suckerpunch is basically a necessity a
    * White Noise/Eclipse is even more important than it used to be
    * Kusanagi is now legal in that Haris
    * Zero AHDs are better AHDs due Marker state
    * Moira AHDs flesh out the Core and gain sixth sense for dealing with increase in Stealth HI (and if you're running the core in a non-tailored list you need the HD+... so you're already at over 180pts for 6 troopers... No way you can afford a Custodier AHD).

    In modern Bakunin, outside of a Kusnagi Haris, Custodiers are basically a ~16pt tax to get White Noise (Warning hyperbolic!); however, White Noise is simultaneously far less effective and more necessary than it used to be due to the prevalence of SS MSV (previously it allowed you to trivially remove rare MSV AROs, now it allows you to inefficiently avoid common SS MSV2 AROs). A solid 8/10 times you're better off with an Uberfalls and another Moderator (for the role of 'avoid SS MSV2' it's significantly more efficient).

    I literally got into Bakunin to play Custodiers and Hacking heavy Observance and since then every change to hacking (whether direct, by changing the context or by interpretation of hacking rules) has nerfed them. It's to the extent that @Hachiman Taro and I have a rule of thumb "whichever interpretation is worse for Custodiers is the way Hacking works": sadly, it's accurate AF.

    Bakunin has a problem: Riot Grrls based lists are extremely good. Kusnagi Haris based lists are playable in the right context (and that context is broad enough to be generally useful). Everything else completely underperforms in the present tournament environment.*

    * But outside of tournaments / in highly specific contexts (Defensive Moira Core vs CHA for instance) other archetypes are fun and can be effective so it's not all doom and gloom.

    Tl;dr why would you want to?
     
    Hachiman Taro likes this.