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Guts roll, Prone and change facing

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Kwisatz Haderach, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    @HellLois bumping this because it could probably use a second official answer for it and @tox can't find the old one.
     
  2. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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  3. fenren

    fenren Active Member

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    Sorry to necro an old thread, but I would love to see a comment and have this marked solved by @HellLois

    I keep seeing people turning around for free using GUTS, even though they cannot improve their cover.

    I've witnessed this a number of times of late. People declare Change Facing, due to a shot from outside LOF inside the trooper's ZOC. They fail the Change Facing roll and get shot, but pass their ARM roll. They then change facing using GUTS, even though they cannot actually move far enough to gain partial or total cover or exit the area of a template weapon/hacking attack.

    My understanding from previous threads has always been that you need to improve your cover to move and change your facing. Or you can choose to not declare an ARO, survive, and then use Warning to change your facing. Otherwise, you are out of luck.


    Thematically it totally get why people do this. If you could move far enough (2") to gain cover from GUTS you should be physically capable of just turning around. But the rules just don't support that.
     
    #23 fenren, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    Daniel Darko likes this.
  4. Bobman

    Bobman MERC
    Warcor

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  5. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    I can't remember any thread where CB said that you can turn while going Prone via Guts - only if actual movement is involved.
     
    DukeofEarl, BLOODGOD, fenren and 2 others like this.
  6. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I considered an answer since I was surprised at a tournament by my opponent. He turned his Mobile Brigada around while going prone due to a guts roll! This was backed up by Top20-ITS-Player and therefor I took it as granted, although no-one could really tell me why it is allowed.

    I came up with the same idea as Commander Teslarod has well elaborated.

    As long as there is no official answer I will go by this (makeshift) solution:
    Guts roll: Going prone does not allow turning around.


    Because:

    RAI: Guts rolls are not made, to give the commanding player an advantage. The unit abandons their area of responsibility and even prefers total cover to partial cover. No free turning around - that has to happen when Alert! or the active turns are on.
    No bonuses given.

    Rules: How to move after a failed guts roll: It is move OR prone.

    Fluff: Failing a guts roll leads to a panic reaction. Imagine being somewhere and suddenly the bullets starts flying. "Get out!", "Take cover!" OR "Down!" No tactical optimisation of firelanes and so on...

    ___________________________________________________________________

    I am prepared for (and interested in) counterarguments. ;-)
     
    #26 Daniel Darko, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    fenren likes this.
  7. fenren

    fenren Active Member

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    This has been my issue as well. The "because I can" with no one able to show me supporting rules, or forum rulings doesn't cut it.
    It's a drastic advantage to get a free change of facing in these situations. The Guts OR clause of fall prone and do not move, causes the prone state to occur, not movement IN the prone state to occur.

    Thanks for the supporting feedback, well trusted Warcor and forum member input is always helpful. Here's to this being marked solved so we can point to it as reference. That said, it's the holidays so hopefully it gets some eyes in January.
     
    #27 fenren, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018