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Guide to USAriadna brand Freedom™

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by TheDiceAbide, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    To @Randomcallsign and @LankyOgreBP
    I'm not saying you should take a 3 dice shot instead even when it's worse than 1 die shot. I'm saying that for significant number of lists having 1 die shot as your best bet means you're not in very good situation.

    But since you almost can't rely on infiltrating flamers being anywhere you need them, I guess that's what you will have to rely on sometimes.
     
  2. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I saw a post about lists designed around flipping between 2 cores using Scott's Guard for ARO and the usual Grey/Volunteers for active turn and wondered if we can do something similar in USAriadna? Obviously we don't have the cheap orders but sometimes spamming armour 3 might turn out well. Has anyone tried something like this? It's tight on points for extras like Van Zant but FD2 marauder flamethrowers are just too cool to pass up. A reasonable substitution might be dropping the HRL marauder for a Harris for extra ARO defense.

    USAriadna Ranger Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MARAUDER Molotok / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    MARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
    MARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    MARAUDER Lieutenant Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MARAUDER Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    GRUNT Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  3. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I've had a few more games and am starting to get a bit more familiar with the USAriadna tools and that's making me realize what stuff I'm really terrible at.

    For example - how on earth do you defend against TAGs when going second? I think going first is straight forward but playing second is another animal!

    My usual strategy with other factions is to discourage one flank with repeaters or camo tokens pretending to be repeaters, then load the other flank with a tortuous path of flash pulse remote AROs with maybe a linked missile launcher to keep things interesting. You'll lose a few things but generally came out in decent shape to jump on it next turn. And every once in a while, that missile launcher will flip a game in a hurry!

    I played a game of Grid against a Squalo. Because of the saturation zone, I didn't use a grunt sniper fireteam (probably a big mistake). I had a few grunt flamethrowers but they all failed to land (as is typical) and were set up in my DZ. Otherwise, I had a marauder core, blackjack sniper, devildog, desperado, FO foxtrots, Rosie, a couple of spare grunts and Warcor.

    I tried a similar attempt of faking threats with camo tokens then set up one flank with warcor, grunt FO and a T2 blackjack. My opponent simply said - I'm not afraid of those camo tokens and forged right through them! When he got to the ARO threats, without mimetism they were at a disadvantage to a BS15 TAG and dropped pretty quick. Then because of his big silhouette, grenade launcher and the fact that it's hard to adequately hide 15+ guys in your DZ, he did crippling damage before handing over the turn.
     
  4. Cthulhu Fhtagn!

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    Well, i'm not too exprerienced against TAG's because my meta is more with link-teams but neverless:

    - Perhaps a Minuteman Core could help? Jeah, i know! Marauders are flat out the better choise 90% of the time but Minuteman's linked BS13 Missile launcher is at least something a TAG respects. It's a shame we have to use our "elite" HI for Missile laucher duty and cant offset their cost with mixed Links...

    - His judgement for our Cameos is sadly right... USARF doesn't hide dangerous Units/Weapons under them. A BSG Foxtrot is probably one of the more offensive ones but can't really stop a TAG. How close was he with his TAG? If he is too careless with his movement because we don't have "dangerous" cameo engaging him could work. Jea, it probably wont work most of the time but if sucessfull he must spend at least one Order for disengaging (or killing your Model) and every order spend that way isn't spend for Ramboing.

    - With smoke... you could sacrifice the unit and throw smoke on your Units you want to protect from the TAG. Yes, speculativ fire and intuitive attacks are still a thing but they are not as easy to use as an HMG to the face.

    - and we have access to Wardrivers. They can at least try to possess the TAG if he moves to close.....
     
  5. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I don't see TAGs very often either. That's one of the reasons I was caught off guard, I didnt realize all the new firelanes that open up to an S7 model.

    Funny enough, I did delay the TAG for an order with a foxtrot engage but he got squashed shortly after...

    However I really like your comment about smoke. I do that frequently with nomad morlocks to prepare intruders for ARO duty but it didn't dawn on me to use for Ariadna. Next round I think I'll be a bit more aggressive with the desperados deployment and leave a line open for a sacrificial smoke on the fireteam if he gets too close.
     
  6. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide That's just like your opinion man.
    Warcor

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    For me it comes down to weathering the storm on the first turn. Don’t deploy too many units out for ARO if they’re just going to get blasted off the board. The worst part about that Squalo in particular though is that it can speculative fire grenades on your head too. Keeping your head down turn 1 and letting them maneuver up the board may be preferable to sacrificing a bunch of troops to eat orders.
     
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  7. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I have another game coming up against vanilla Combined on Capture & Protect. I'm not sure but I think there's a very good chance he'll be bringing an Avatar. After the absolute beating I took in my last game against a TAG, I'm trying to tailor the list a bit more in case I lose the roll and go second.

    Lots of spare grunts here with snipers and flamethrowers to try to bleed out orders from his Avatar rush, and to protect against a Speculo just in case. For counter attacking I have desperados and the devil dog. Van Zant's job is to kill his MSV sniper first or maybe tie up the Avatar if he's careless. I'm skeptical about this as Combined are usually pretty good at building back-field flamethrower protection so I don't know if he'll find a good hole to fit in.

    I ran out of SWC for the Marauder Harris so they feel a bit out of place and could be dropped for more Grunts! When against the Avatar, more cheap troops are usually better than quality troops. I also don't have a tool for the inevitable mimetism HMG remote. I suspect the only tool USAriadna have for that are Hardcases/foxtrots with shotguns or a lucky grunt with flamethrower?

    USAriadna Ranger Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
    DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE AP CCW. (7)
    VAN ZANT AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 38)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    MARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
    MARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    MARAUDER Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    FOXTROT Lieutenant Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 17)
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  8. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    I would move some SWC around to get the Haris in there. Try making one of your two non-ilfitrating flamethrower grunts a rifle LT. now in a core with the three snipers your opponent will have to guess which vanilla grunt is the LT. You can then swap the paramedic marauder for the Haris option.
    Finally, the BSG foxtrot could replace the LT option and would give you a pretty decent surprise shot to try to take out a total reaction bot in their bad range band.
     
  9. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    To add a bit, while I’m a huge fan the camo Lt, I just can never justify the 2 swc for a Foxtrot. There are just better things to do with swc.
    While coming in on the back line can be great, remember that Van Zant can come in on any edge. If your opponent covers the deployment zone, you might be able to find a good angle from somewhere else.
     
  10. Toalpaz

    Toalpaz Active Member

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    I think the best way to deal with tags in USAr is to hide in total cover when going second, and rely on a couple sources of AP in general. Have one AP hmg or molotock, or Van Zant in your plans to deal with them. Heavy Flame Throwers are decent at killing them, but otherwise BSG marauders can do some damage or 6th parachutists SMG's on ap rounds to the back will do some work.

    There are some answers but they require more work than other factions as the common AP weapons are short range, low burst, low damage, and on fragile troopers.
     
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  11. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I did make a few changes as recommended in this thread but it turned out to be all for naught! He brought a more body-heavy vanilla Combined list without the Avatar and I got first turn to boot.

    If I do get first, then this sectorial runs like clockwork. The Marauder Harris or Grunts take down the ARO pieces then the Desperadoes go on a suicide run and kill a disproportionate amount of stuff. That FD for medium infantry is really great for allowing you to set up in annoying sniper nests. I've tried both rocket launcher and molotok for the Marauder Harris and the rocket launcher is the clear winner as it allows you to perch somewhere with a good vantage point and still enjoy good range bands. I also enjoy having the Grunts/Devil dog in one pool and the Desperadoes/Marauders in the other. It feels really punchy and you can do alot of stuff in a turn.

    I had a practice game against TAK on the same mission earlier in the afternoon and it played out similarly. The main exception there was that the Devil Dog was a huge toolkit to quickly move up the field and sensor a bunch of camo tokens before the rest of the list went to work.

    The only piece I'm not comfortable with is Van Zant. Yes, he's very flexible and there's always a hole for him but he's not very punchy for his 38 points. In both games yesterday, he killed one trooper in the back and then died once a defender or two turned to face. The short range bands on a rifle don't help him at all. I find myself wishing for a more traditional spitfire armed AD troop for 2/3 of the cost. I think he's more of a toolkit model than a stone-cold killer but then his weapon load-out is limited. I think he needs grenades or an additional shotgun or something. If only the parachuter molotok wasn't at such a SWC premium.

    Unfortunately, despite a couple more games of practice, I didn't have a chance to try to go toe-to-toe against a TAG again. Next time I hope...
     
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  12. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I've hit the dozen games mark against a variety of other armies/mission types and I'm really enjoying this sectorial. It feels a little under-powered but in being so, forces you to use all sorts of asymmetrical tools.

    It's rare for me to kill a model using traditional tools like linked HMGs. Instead, desperadoes, marauders flamethrowers or sniper grunts in ARO by far rack up the largest body count. I'm finding the game to be very enjoyable where instead of moving your big gun up a flank, you need to figure out exactly where your suicidal marauder or desparado can trade up most favorably.

    The only guy who doesn't click for me is Van Zant. I've tried him in about ~8 of my dozen games and he just consistently fails to impress. There's always a good spot for him but then his rifle just bounces off whatever he finds. I suppose he's a good melee counter to an expensive TAG or HI on a flank in theory but every opponent seems to be a little smarter than to leave an opening like that. I can't believe his 38pts doesn't even buy a DA close combat weapon...
     
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  13. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    For your first statement, 2 assault pistols Desperadoes, Heavy flamethrower grunts or marauders, and the APHMG Blackjack are your best single model killers. However, the Marauder Molotok Link and HMG Grunt Link should be giving you your best results. The math will put you ahead in most cases. Make sure you are doing what you can to mitigate modifers from your opponent. The US doesn't have anything that really stacks modifiers like Mimitism, Marksman 2, or full auto. Your links are you only options and in some cases the math isn't there to make a fight worth it. Use your superior positioning via Forward deployment to take away cover and cheap throwaways like hardcases to get around those harder targets.

    With Van Zant you are paying for his deployment mode. He is one of the few models in the game that can come in via the rear in the deployment zone with no restrictions. In a normal F2F roll, his stats aren't that impressive vs high strength models. His real strength is wrecking havoc on all the light models in the deployment zone to remove the enemy order pool. He also has stealth. If the rear is unguarded, you can walk up use MA with a strength of 16 and an AP CCW that Crits on 18-20 rolls on the dice without alerting anyone near by. You can also do a sandwich attack, which is shoot someone in the rear with your rifle. If your failed, activate a regular model on the other side and shoot that same enemy model in the rear. Your target can only dodge change face or take free hits in the butt. You should have enough orders to be able to sink that a few times and down pretty much anything.
     
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  14. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I would like to add that ideally for that you'll probably need either 3 models or very conveniently placed small piece of total cover high enough for your Van Zant to attack from 2 directions, depending on what hemisphere your target decides to cover after being shot. But it works.
     
  15. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    So, quick question here...

    How many Mavericks and Desperadoes is too many Mavericks and Desperadoes...?

    Does this count as a biker gang?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]6 [​IMG]10
    MAVERICK Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    MAVERICK Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MAVERICK Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MAVERICK Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    DESPERADO Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / 2 Heavy Pistols, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 11)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    MAVERICK Molotok / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 29)
    GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    GRUNT Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
    GRUNT (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  16. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    That is probably too many :)

    You should switch those Desperadoes to the 13 point Dual AP pistol version. Because of his speed, you can get into close range out of your opponents cover with B5. It is one of the strongest attack pieces in USARF.

    You will find the Molotok Maverick is an underperformer for his cost in points and SWC. The LRL ones are great because of the greatness of the SMG and the ability to get around long range cover bonuses with a template and fire. I would switch him out for something else. An Airborne ranger with Molotok is more useful to win those F2F and you got the smoke to get him in where ever you like.
     
  17. infyrana

    infyrana Member

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    Has anyone been having any success with Minutemen links lately whether LI or otherwise? What sort of support do they need most?
     
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  18. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide That's just like your opinion man.
    Warcor

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    I often run Minuteman links when I play my USARF, they're fantastic. They get to the mid-field and deliver moderate ranged firepower. Support-wise a real doctor is nice, letting you go unconscious and heal, instead of relying on a low chance of success from the Paramedic. For Limited Insertion things get dicy for USARF, though Minutemen are probably your best link option for that format.
     
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  19. Harlock

    Harlock Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    For LI, for me the best option is, 3 blackjack, devil, dog, van zant and unknown ranger.
    USAriadna Ranger Force──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2 VAN ZANT Fusil AP / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC AP. (0 | 38) RANGER DESCONOCIDO (Cadena de Mando) Fusil / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC T2, Cuchillo. (0 | 41) BLACKJACK Ametralladora AP, Mina Pectoral, D.E.P. / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC. (2 | 36) BLACKJACK Fusil de Francotirador T2, Subfusil, Mina Pectoral / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC. (1 | 36) BLACKJACK Fusil de Francotirador T2, Subfusil, Mina Pectoral / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC. (1 | 36) DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Granadas de Humo + 1 Antípoda K-9 / Pistola Pesada AP, Arma CC AP. (0 | 32) [​IMG] ANTÍPODA K-9 Arma CC AP. (7) FOXTROT (Observ. de Artillería) Fusil, Minas Antipersona / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 18) FOXTROT (Observ. de Artillería) Fusil, Minas Antipersona / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 18) MAVERICK Subfusil, Lanzacohetes Lig. / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0.5 | 22) MARAUDER Teniente Fusil, Lanzallamas Pesado / Pistola Pesada, Cuchillo. (0 | 21) 4.5 CAP | 298 PuntosAbrir en Infinity Army
     
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  20. infyrana

    infyrana Member

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    @TheDiceAbide Many thanks for your reply, it's tough to work out whether they're going to be worth the purchase since I already own Marauders and Grunts. I'm only just getting myself a Desperado model for use!

    @Harlock Very interesting, very heavy on the Blackjack - I only own the HMG model (unbuilt), will have to check the base size to my Geckos as I could use them as proxy! Have you ever written up a battle report using that list?
     
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