Fire both rounds (most likely in an ARO), then move & Reload the entire Fireteam? Clever. Though rather difficult to pull, I guess...
A question for those using Govads as main attack link. I may be misunderstanding how you use them, but unless you know what you're going up against or what kind of special terrain will be on the table, is it really worth playing extra over Ghulam link for that?
No, and you've summed up the problem with the Govads for me. The Muyibs offer different options, the Govad more of the same. They're ok if you know you'll be playing lots of camo or non a table with low viz zones during a campaign or smth
That's what I thought for a while. Latest posts in this thread, however, implied (or maybe I was misreading it) that they are somehow an attack powerhouses and somesuch, even compared to Muyibs. I get it that Muyibs lack some things Govags have, but then it's the same stuff Ghulam link has, basically.
YES! they're veterans, Religious, better BS/PH/Arm/BTS! with a ghulam, you need to roll guts, Govads dont. They can't be isolated (excellent vs. mutts), the hacker can't be isolated AND have better survival rates vs. another hacker. with Govads you can have an aggressive/obvious Lt and/or use Lt order without LoL fear, without paying for a farzan., If your LT dies, Govads don't give a shit, you will have at least some regular orders. For killing missions, they don't need to move a lot, and theres where them excel, WAY BETTER then Muyibs or Ghulams, trust me. if you have a button smash get Muyibs (or ghulam def link).
Govads = Assault and kill unit. Expensive. Muyibs = Objective hunters, and area control. Expensive. Ghulams = tool box for either but not as good as either. Cheap. All three have their strengths and all three play differently. The ONLY downside Govads have is their lack of linked doctor, in all other regards they are great. they have a ML (I preffer it over HRL), a HMG (preferred over Spitfire). I have found MSV1 handy more often than not. While Albedo and White Noise does exist, the downsides come in to play a lot less than the upsides.
Okay, I think I would like to put a few separate thoughts on the matter here. Maybe we can make some sense out of this entire thing. Please keep in mind that some of these thoughts might have been conceived "at the heat of the moment" and not given a second thought. -------------- - In my mind, playing Hassassins is mostly optimal when you can set up a mean alpha strike and carry it out. Order count is important here, and that is why I think Ghulam Core is the to-go link of HB. It's just what allows you to do HB things while still having some semi-competent troubleshooters; one of the reasons I prefer to take HMG despite people chanting "defensive link" is that removing 1-2 defensive pieces with plain dumb 5 dice at BS 14 is what can open up a venue of action for your "trademark pieces". - Govad Haris is sometimes chosen as a similar troubleshooting piece specifically against stuff with visual mods. There are some problems with it though. This Haris can cost you almost as much as Ghulam Core with 5 man bonus of the latter does effectively the same as MSV1, except against everyone. Sure, it's only for full link, but if we are talking casualties, Haris loses even more after 1 man down. You are likely taking both though, and I presume that the ability to cover more firelanes without moving a lot is a selling point there. - Govad Core is "now we're talking" thing since at that point it starts performing plain better than Ghulams at what we are discussing here. The problem is, unless you make the most out of MSV and Veteran, you are looking at 1 BS better for almost 1.5 times the price. Obligatory: are you sure you don't know what to do with 38 or so points in HB to play to its strength? Relying on your Core to kill stuff is not one, IMO. - On those Govad traits we want to leverage. Veteran is nice, but half of its advantages are diminished by the fact that Ghulam Core + CoC Farzan is still cheaper. There's a lot to say on ifs and buts, of course, but it's still something to keep in mind. Other half is not caring about EMP weapons. Mostly on units that have EMP templates, but lack similarly useable Normal templates. This is very niche, to be honest. - BTS is useful when you're eating nanopulser to the face. Other than that, I don't think +1 ARM is something to cite when we compare survivability of the unit. In fact, I think Number 2 profile does more in that aspect. On the other hand, you still don't have a doctor. - Comparison with Muyibs is not something I'm going to do since their loadouts are very different. Still, something to keep in mind is that I feel that Muyibs are not so much a strong point of HB, but rather a way for HB to play scenarios like Quadrant Control or some objective-heavy scenarios. And Biotechvore, where you can't really play your "HB game" anyway. But so far I mostly view this as thing to do out of necessity or because of some subjective factors rather than something very optimal. ----------------- Overall, this is really nuanced tbh. But so far I feel that Govads (or more specifically, Govad Core) is a way to counterpick tough matchups (when you feel that both table/scenario and your opponent's most probable composition will give your more traditional lists a hard time; but it's possible that's not giving you A-game anyway) while going all-out on that plan. Investing heavily into them without having to feels like self-imposed challenge to me. Tbh I was about to go full retard and also type something like "or why don't just leave your HB at home and bring ASA if you want to play MSV1 link in a particular event/MU", but I'm aware that shenanigans available to both armies don't quite match, so who knows what I may be missing there.
I'm jealous of all these people who don't rate Veteran because nobody ever tries to Isolate their shit with E/M weapons. Must be a nice, easy life without worrying about E/Maulers and Blitzens and such. I love Veteran L1. And I love MSV1 for hunter-killer operations too, which is the whole Govad deal. And I like BTS 3 because the specialist in that team is a Hacker, and BTS keeps hackers safe. There is a degree of extraneous stuff to the Govads, like the Breaker Pistol, but that's still useful at times (especially when you're coming across high ARM 0 BTS troops) esp. on the guys without the LSg like the HMG. I took a list without Govads in it recently and I was sad, because Govads would actually have been much more useful than Muyibs in that list (facing multiple Clipsos as I was).
I mean, yes, it's matchup specific. But unless we're talking jammers and such, if your opponent can isolate your LI, he can probably knock them out in those very situations just as easily, if not easier.
