Reading way too far into this as the valkyrie was clearly a joke, but alright. And because you didn't see something doesn't mean they won't do it.
@colbrook yes, true and very much agreed. KS is where you take the risk. But CB has clearly already invested money in the prototype. Lots of figures designed from concept to final piece. I guess when the KS launches, we'll know how much they invested. If the fulfilment date is 6-8months or less then the tooling and everything was done and the moulds made so CB is balls deep in risk. Time will tell I guess.
Both of these points are saying the same thing, and can be consolidated into one point. While I do not know how many models will be offered in the KS or the core box, (because no details have been released at this point, so arguing about it at this point is moot), I do know the quality of the models is going to be consistent with what CB has provided with its metal miniatures in the past, and I do not have to worry that I just payed $100 for lots and lots of poor quality plastic models. While this may not matter to some board gamer enthusiasts, it really should. Miniatures being added to a board game means the game will cost more, so the quality of those miniatures should be a consideration. All of GW board games have this requirement as well, as do games like Kingdom Death. This point also hinges on speculation about the number of components each miniature will have, and how difficult they will be to glue together. One can look to Infinity as an example, but looking at the models they produced for the Outrage box shows that they can make some very high quality miniatures with only 1 or 2 parts. The metal miniatures from the core box of Aristeia! show this as well. Metal and plastic both chip depending on how roughly, and how often they are handled, and both require sealing to mitigate this. This depends on a few considerations. One being the type of the plastic used. If it is similar to the plastic used by GW or Kingdom Death then throwing them into a box, (especially with a lot of other game materials such as game tiles), will result in a number of broken models. If it is a PVC plastic such as used by Soda Pop or CMON, throwing them into a box, (or leaving them in a hot car), will result in bent swords and such, and leads to the other consideration which is how much one cares about the miniatures. If a there is no problem with bent, or broken pieces on a plastic figure, then it will be no more so just because the mini is metal. The biggest consideration is if the models are painted, in which case throwing them into a box would never be recommended regardless of being plastic or metal. This depends on the type of plastic, what type of surface it is falling onto, and if the model is painted.
As for model count, I'm expecting something like GW's Blackstone Fortress, which has 9 player-character models and 35 hostiles of various types. As a maximum. I'm hoping that CB includes built-in storage like CMON and Ninja Division did. relatively cheap vacuum-formed plastic, the downside is that it makes for big boxes.
Did retail NAS come with vacuum storage? I had the KS edition and I definitely didn't get storage solutions included.
Interview (in spanish) in the first hour or so in https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/m-a-m-4x07-infinity-defiance-entrevista-fase-4-marvel.34458/ about Defiance to V and Hellois Collector's edition: "more metal" Always 4 heroes, each with its own 2 spec trees: YJ: leadership / heavy weapons PanO: Assassin / can't remember if it was mid-range shooter or specialist Ariadna: not really clearly specified, but Berserker sounded likely as one of the two. Nomad: the support character, it was designed to NOT be the classic "stay back and provide heal/support", she can do more things. Specialties are Combat and Remote (she can bring a remote) One to Four players, with a possibly 5th as Dungeon Master that can make the game impossible to win... Alternate activations, same basic motor as Aristeia!, the heroes start 2 actions per activation One of the actions is "interact": activate console, buff an ally, exchange gear with the ally, Activate an NPC (Valkyrie/Jazz's Remote) The Pressure to finish the mission comes from the Alert level, this has for example enemy reinforcements. Learning curve comes in the campaign from first missions being easy and limited (kinda tutorials, as I understand), getting more complex the more the campaign advances. No word about how hard is to star people learning this game, aside from that escalation in rules. No mention about other gaming modes aside from campaign. Enough Shasvastii to start the sectorial No word about redundancy / imposed buys for those starting Shasvastii with Wildfire. EDIT: Forgot to add, the target consumers are Infinity Players, and the choice of metal models is that they think we want the maximum quality.
Quality is great, we all know that. What I am saying is ,that even though most boardgamers like quality, there is a reason why you don't get Infinity quality most of the time in boardgames. Even though you could, but most would not be willing to pay like 10€(or more) per single 32mm model, not to mention how much would bigger cost. That 80€ Blood rage with 9 monsters and 40 clansmen would not be that appealing if it costed 400-500€ but had awesome minis, now would it be? You are aware that super glue and plastic glue are not the same? Also, never had to glue any GW(most of them are plastic now, except few of the metal ones remaining) nor KDM model(not counting collectors resin models expansions but gameplay stuff is all plastic) with super glue, since they are plastic, and it's really wonderful to work with plastic glue and models compared to metal/resin. With plastic glue you really don't have any hassle, don't have to glue your fingers all the time etc. Metal chips way way easier. Still remember back in the day I was into 40k/confrontation, every metal model we had, chipped. Never had this problem with plastic. Yes, it can chip when mistreated and shoved in box, but it will chipp way way harder. We painted our aristea minis, have em in box all together, didn't seal them, not one of them chipped. Metal chipped if not sealed just from handling during the game. Well, depends about storage, solution, yes. If you get minis like you get em in Infinity boxes/blisters...with no storage it's not really convinient for buyer. But judging by box size they shoved, seems they have storage figured, which is a good thing! [/QUOTE] ↑ 6.You have to pay more attention to metal models than to plastic. With plastic you never need to fear that something will broke off. With metal, that can be normal occurrence. Hey, my friend just knocked this model of the table, plastic -> who cares, pick it up and continue to play, metal -> look of horror on someones face. This depends on the type of plastic, what type of surface it is falling onto, and if the model is painted.[/QUOTE] I can knock any of my KDM survivor mini from table, and I am quite sure it will survive the land just fine. On the other hand, I would never try that with any of my infinity minis. Had normal 40k soldier models fall from table, they all just survived fine...
Semi-serious, but do we know if it will be the "pay and get models as soon as Kick is done" model of a Kickstarter or a "pay and way two years because we have to actually make the game in the meantime and have a year of delays" format?
My retail copy included a lot of storage. Storage for all the generic Clan minis, it's a little tight if you add minis for the shrines and lanterns. And each of the specific clans still lives in their own box.
We will have to wait for the launch of the Kickstarter to see what their projected time frame will be, but I would expect with them doing all the mini production in house, (so main delays would be in printing), that they will be aiming for a late Spring release. Though as with all Kickstarters that I have had experience with, the more successful it is, how many stretch goals are met, and how many different add-ons there are will increase the packaging and shipping time by a few months.
I am confident it will release next year. Also very confident not before n4. My guess would be targeting KS shipment Oct/ Nov with retail release in Nov/Dec. No way they can go from where they are to shipped product by spring and no way they release both within a month of each other.
The biggest delay will be the printing of card components, booklets, etc. I'm also guessing the Wildfire terrain was made by whoever will be making the components for Defiance so they already have some idea on turnarounds. When it comes to the metal miniatures, they're all done in house. Spin casting pewter isn't quite a fast as injection moulding plastic but not having any packaging and shipping times between the factory and CB's own packing department really helps close the gap (they reckoned 12000 pieces a day during the studio tour video, most miniatures consist of 2-6 pieces). Depending how final the design work is by launch, I don't think a turnaround of 6 months is too unrealistic, most Kickstarters are ordering plastic miniatures from China which takes significantly longer. I know books are printed in Spain, but I'm not sure where the terrain comes from.
I think we are over estimating where they are in the design process. I think they wont have all the scenarios and figures designed until december januaryish and I also believe they will only be producing kickstarter plus maybe 10%. So production will start in January which would put it squarely in that gen con time frame ...but no way they release defiance and n4 near the same time. So either n4 launches in adepticon time frame...which would be great but I feel really unlikely we are looking at a traditional 12 months from ks beginning to ks shipping. N4 has been stated summer launch so defiance is the unknown.
It would be awesome if Defiance dropped for Adepticon (~April 2020). But that requires CB to have all of the design work done already and using KS as a fancy pre-order system. With N4 dropping at GenCon next year, I'm expecting Defiance around Christmas 2020.
