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Gonna Buy It?

Discussion in 'General' started by gregmurdock, Mar 30, 2019.

?

How much are you willing to pay to ks Defiance?

  1. Not ksing Defiance.

    36 vote(s)
    15.5%
  2. €0~50

    11 vote(s)
    4.7%
  3. €51~75

    19 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. €76~100

    41 vote(s)
    17.7%
  5. €101~125

    25 vote(s)
    10.8%
  6. €126~150

    27 vote(s)
    11.6%
  7. €151~200

    38 vote(s)
    16.4%
  8. No price is too high.

    35 vote(s)
    15.1%
  1. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    This ways sarcasm. As I'm one of the rare guys who claim that MO CC skills are useful, I won't call it bloat. But I'm sure other people here would claim that CC22 and MA1 is just a way to add points on a troop price for nothing useful.
     
  2. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Those who think MA1 and CC22 is bloat never faced a morlock. There are a long line of dead guy and isolated/imm2 TAG that would disagree with them
     
    Solar, Mahtamori, DukeofEarl and 2 others like this.
  3. Torres

    Torres Active Member

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    Don't know if Hawkwood is bloated or not, but mentioning 6points warband with smoke, metachemistry and MA2 (!) is hardly an argument in this discussion ;)
     
  4. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is. If you think CC22 + MA 1 is not enough to bring down ennemy troop : yes it is, Morlock has the same CC ability and they crush ennemy troop often (plus he doesn't need smoke to face ARO, he has BS 13, mimetism and a good BS weapon
     
  5. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Yeah, not sure if a 6 pt warband is an apt comparison for Hawkwood, a 40 point gunboat.
    Often times when a Morlock makes that attack run against whatever it's going for they end up dead/isolated/unconscious at the end of the order.

    I see Hawkwood's CC mostly as a deterrent, and something that can be leveraged if your opponent severely misplays with their LT or TAG
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    He also doesn't die to a random knife crit like a lot of other CC specialists do.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  7. Torres

    Torres Active Member

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    I agree with Mike. Hawkwood is not CC specialist. He is gunfighter with cool option for CC.
    Of course in vacuum 22CC/MA1 on John is almost the same as 22CC/MA2 on Morlock.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

    That sounds incredibly delicious.



    Except that we call the basic Squalo/Guijia/Lizard/Raicho "Main Battle TAGs".
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Do we now?
     
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  10. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Slamdancing the Cosmopolis

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    Goonhammer likes this.
  11. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    It's pretty bloaty if you put him up against a CC specialist ( > CC23 MA3). Being stuck at MA1 means he will never have a modified CC value over 20 against any other CC specialist, which severely decreases his deadliness in CC.

    I guess in other terms, it's bloat because with that statline he is almost always better off shooting.

    You can also get 6-7 Morlocks for the cost of this guy, and they have extra utility (smoke and impetuous orders) that allows them to more fully leverage their CC abilities.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    With MA1 and CC over 20, he should almost always be better off meleeing compared to using his B2 Multi Pistol. Red Fury is better at 8+, true, but that's a completely different rangeband.
    A rough estimate I think CC21 and MA0 is the break even point for a Combi at BS13.

    Also, Hawkwood has almost the stats and skills I was hoping Shang-Ji to have (just up PH to 12 and change NWI to 2w)
     
  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    It depends on your definition of CC specialist.

    Some think it means someone who's primary focus is CC, that's what they do mainly. Warbands largely.

    Some think it means someone who can kill other CC troops reliably, you're especially good at it. Domaru and shit.

    Some think it means someone who can reliably best troops with no CC ability in CC, Spetsnatz and so on. This is my definition and is therefore the best and correct one of course.

    Anyways Hawkwood isn't the first two but he is the third and the third one is the most useful one because 9/10 troops you come across have no CC ability at all. CC22, MA1 and a CC weapon of note is all you need.
     
  14. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    It's a solid setup.

    He's got a great weapon for 8-24" in the Red Fury (or even the K1 Marksman Rifle, which is a great application of K1), a pretty solid option for 4-8" in the Multi Pistol and good CC for 0-4". The number of units which cover the full range of advancing to contact like that is pretty short.
     
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  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    When we're talking about basic roles we expect the TAG to play? You bet.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Is that explicit in the fluff?
     
  17. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Yes, in the first book, the PanOceanian section, describing how 4 ton TAGs have replaced 60 ton AFVs.
     
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  18. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    John Hawkwood hast further almost the Morlocks' full CCW set (while the Morlocks need several profiles for) - thanks to his D13 Multi-Pistol. Which comes in handy if you don't want to kill the target directly.
     
    #578 Tristan228, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    In the sense that they perform the same role on the battlefield or in the sense that the role is no longer needed?
     
  20. schoon

    schoon Active Member

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    If memory serves, TAGs had essentially replaced AFVs in practice due to the ease of transporting/deploying them in a geopolitical arena where small actions in widely disparate locations are the norm.

    Which is not to say that AFV do not exist, but they tend not to be used in the current military paradigm - much the same way that battleships are no longer a thing in most navies.